Fitzhugh Fella

No I'm not negative but at the same time I am not going to join in the "ML saved us therefore he is a God" brigade. He picked up a bargain for £12m - I don't think he is losing any sleep tonight about his investment. Andy Oldnow was reviled on here for certain actions when he was part of the old regime (and to all those who are saying this is a fresh start - not true AO was part of the previous exec regime which left us staring at admin) so let's be honest do any of us feel 100% sure we are in the right hands? I just feel quite sad that tonight we are sweating on a 34 year joining us on a freebie - we either want him or we don't but it looks as if we are still dabbling in the basement bargains. Are we all happy to be slaves to the new regime?

I think it is rather pathetic that we are all (I include myself here) sweating on a soon to be 34 year old signing on a free transfer. Dont get me wrong I am very grateful that I still have a club to support but we have hardly exploded out of the traps. Lot of sense in proceeding cautiously and all that but it would have been nice if Mr Liebherr could have least given us (and the club) one shot up the arse, or something to get a little excited about. So far we have the arrival of Andy Oldknow (who comes with baggage - even he will have to admit), a Chairman called Nicola who surely can't know his way around professional football with a background in Swiss banking/corporate sports and the unpalatable fact that David Jones is still a director. I know I should bow and scrape and be eternally grateful because my club has been saved but was just wondering how much longer we are expected to be so subserviant? Flame away I am sure.

Had to laught at the Echo's report of Murty signing - "it said Pardew acted swiftly to sign Murty"

Triple Agent Redknapp?

"should the takeover not happen" - Storrie has changed his tune since a fortnight ago. As I said 3 weeks ago "Oh Happy Day"!

still waiting for an apology Hypo - you were mocking my predictions that the takeover would never happen a few weeks ago now you have reverted to mocking Pompey. Personally I think they should be stripped from winning the Cup as it was done with players they never intended or could ever own.

Don't think we will be seeing much of Thomas this season. Mentally weak and a hypochondriac to boot was a verdict of someone close to the players a year or two back. When the tough get going Thomes goes missing.

FM - a sad indictment on our local newspaper. I know you are well connected so I respect your view but am also saddened by it.

Sensible sentiments Phil and ones those still interested should note. As you say you have been at the cutting edge and that should make folk take heed. Next time you are over hopefully we'll make that beer.

I am going to make this my last comment on Pinnacle. I have had plenty of verbal threats since I went public with what I knew a few weeks ago -inc being threatened with the police and accusations of destroying the future of SFC. FWIW - I think MLT to be the greatest player ever to wear the red and white stripes. I also think he is one of the most genuine blokes around who has helped me out and countless number of other causes. He is 100% a fan and there will never be anyone who will even come near him in my admiration for what he did for us and what hopefully he will continue to do. The man is an absolute footballing genius and as near a God a human can get. Hope that is clear. However he should never have been asked to "lend" his name to Pinnacle. He probably agrees with that now. I wish Lynam had never proposed him - Matt's trusting and good nature was abused and that is one reason I feel bitter to Pinnacle because they put in their shop window someone who should never have been exposed to such a tacky bunch of chancers. I wish he had been more diligent. All the paperwork I have ever had on this is now with the Echo and Simon Carter. It may be best to let it lie or they may choose to dig deeper. It's up to them - obviously some like Alpine think it best to leave alone - others have a more inquisitive nature. Not my aisle any more. Gonna spend the next few months getting behind the new regime, frustrating though it is while things look like moving slowly. We still have a club, I still have a bunch of lads to drink with on a Saturday and life goes on. (but no thanks to Pinnacle).

OK, it made me smile!

Yes you are quite probably correct - but being a "historian" I have alwayd been interested in the "whys and wherefores". Even finding out why a player was sold in 1920 for instance intrigues me. Sorry I can't help it. Plenty of people get in touch with me to find out more about their long lost relations who played for Saints to make me think it is all worthwhile but I accept it is not to everyone's tastes.

I daren't comment because someone will tell me to "get over it"

Thanks Graffito. I do find his comments quite irrational and unneccesarily aggressive but best ignored. One day the Pinnacle chapter will be just a footnote in history but for now their presence in the early weeks of the close season will unfortunately have future ramifications for this season (and for Drew Surman) and therefore worthy I guess of some reflection and debate.

Well like I say I know the 6 names on the original paperwork submitted by Lynam to Fry but I think by the close of play only MLT, TL and this mysterious Bill Allen were still involved. However I think while the motive of Matt was borne out of a love odf the club and a desire to help in any way I think the motives of Allen and Lynam to be more questionable. To give lynam the benefit of the doubt as the middleman I would say it was the chance of making a quick buck was the main reason the whole Pinnacle thing got off the ground in the first place. I don't think it was politically motivated if that's what you mean.

I think the whole "FL point deduction legal challenge" was Pinnacle buying time/looking for an exit excuse.

"serious doubts about the takeover" I think this is where I came in about 4 weeks ago!

I have a copy of a letter sent by his solicitors veryfying his wealth which was sent to Fry so I guess he does exist.

Yes to your last question because I have a copy of Pinnacle's initial bid to Fry where he says his backers could invest up to £30m. But obviously one of those backers soon disappeared. As for ML not trumping Pinnacle I would say that ML is not the sort to trump other bidders, plus he would have been told by AO that to trump a bid that would make MLT chairman would not be conducive to having a good relationship with the fans. And I don't think Fry was 100% in the loop re leveraged debt (presumably it was not his business where the funds came from) although the truth seems to be out there now. As for how much Matt knew, one would have to ask him but in the one conversation I had with him (which was a little one-sided) on the Saturday he said it was all going to go ahead on the Monday, he seemed very sure that Pinnacle were the real deal.

False promises and MLT's name. Once LC got involved I think Fry would have been even happier knowing that in the past LC had put his hand in his pocket. Leon Crouch and MLT undoubtedly lent Pinnacle an air of gravitas.

No heard nothing about Tommac or the Irish, but I know Dan (Help me Rhonda) Williams surfaced briefly for a while on this forum around then. Like I say when a club is up for sale all sorts of things emerge from the woodwork.

I think by the time LC signed the cheque he was a honorary member of Pinnacle.

Yea that is where they differed from the Glazer leveraged debt. The Glazers borrowed from United whereas I am assuming Pinnacle would have borrowed from the City and hoped that the gains made through selling the club on (whether that was short or long term) would outweigh interest on the debt. Don't forget the 12-13m rumoured to be the cost of buying SFC out of debt and owning the club, stadium etc lock, stock and barrel was a bargain. That is why it attracted some of the idiots or sharks it did. Not many of them had a 2 hapennies to rub together. Football attracts speculators and get rich quick merchants like a moth to a light bulb. The only genuine buyers out there were Salz (couldn't raise enough funds), Crouch (couldn't ally himself with others to raise the cash) and Markus Liebherr.

a good question. I don't think they were "given" extended exclusivity because once the deadline passed Fry was reported to be seeking talks with other parties but of of course, by then, Pinnacle were firmly in the driving seat with Lynam incredibly being given a Saints e mail address and granted access to the players at Stapleford.

Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season. Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome. I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses". It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on. It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth. The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up. Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible. I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement. We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either). As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut. Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months!