Fitzhugh Fella

Yea that is where they differed from the Glazer leveraged debt. The Glazers borrowed from United whereas I am assuming Pinnacle would have borrowed from the City and hoped that the gains made through selling the club on (whether that was short or long term) would outweigh interest on the debt. Don't forget the 12-13m rumoured to be the cost of buying SFC out of debt and owning the club, stadium etc lock, stock and barrel was a bargain. That is why it attracted some of the idiots or sharks it did. Not many of them had a 2 hapennies to rub together. Football attracts speculators and get rich quick merchants like a moth to a light bulb. The only genuine buyers out there were Salz (couldn't raise enough funds), Crouch (couldn't ally himself with others to raise the cash) and Markus Liebherr.

a good question. I don't think they were "given" extended exclusivity because once the deadline passed Fry was reported to be seeking talks with other parties but of of course, by then, Pinnacle were firmly in the driving seat with Lynam incredibly being given a Saints e mail address and granted access to the players at Stapleford.

Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season. Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome. I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses". It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on. It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth. The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up. Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible. I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement. We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either). As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut. Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months!

I like the sound of this mystery new signing and getting his twin brother will be a bonus

Doug, this is terrible news - I was wondering where you had got to recently. Hang on in there - my thoughts are with you as you face this awful struggle against the odds. Yes certainly puts things in perspective. Best Wishes Duncan

Pinnacle bid was totally based on leveraged debt. They were already "hawking" the club around to other buyers. The new buyers none too impressed with those that lent their name to Pinnacle. (More than one source for the above). Hope that satisfies you Le God. And the relevance Billy? Well I guess we might still have Andrew Surman on the books had Pinnacle not messed us around and I am pretty sure had AP been in the job 4 weeks longer we would all be feeling a little more optimistic for next week. Sure, Pinnacle is in the past but the repercussions of their ill-fated interest will remain with us for a while longer plus a lot of us were taken in by what at the end of the day was a load of old bull. Remember Happy Father's Day messages etc etc. Oh and thanks Andy.

yeah but if people don't like the gossip the messenger gets shot - I gather more details of Pinnacle's bid are getting leaked and it is not nice listening.

I hreard Thomas was a bit of a hypochondriac - especially when the pressure is on.

Nah people are still talking or perhaps I should say spinning

I agree. L Mac is far from perfect but he cares passionately about SFC and still does everything he can to promote Saints. I think he should be cut just a little slack for services rendered and you can say the same about Crouch. I doubt either man will ever have a position of influence at SMS again so maybe its time to say thanks to both men and let them be.

I thank you for your calm and measured reply, Hypo!

Well you can't accuse me of being pro Rupert but I have to say I feel Lowe had to do what he did. No man can face those sort of horrendous allegations and manage a Premiership team at the same time. I remember those last few months under Jones and we were terrible. Poor old Rupert (a quick lie down is called for) had no choice but to do what he did. Perhaps he was being a bit naive expecting Jones to attend a press conference with Hoddle the next day and to continue scouting but that's Rupert. I thought the UI article to be a good one and the writer deserves praise for not jumping on a convenient bandwagon. Hypo, no offence but you are very quick to call people's views stupid, sometimes it might be better to actually reflect a little on what is being said.

and an ex-Saint as well. Sir Bobby signed for us an amateur in 1949 before following Bill Dodgin to Fulham the following year. When I see some of the characters involved in football today and then I look at the integrity of people like Sir Bobby I am glad I "knew" the old days.

Yes it was Jimmy DRINKWATER - did you know him?

I almost hate to post this but during 1916-17 we had a PICKUP and a FRISBY in our side! F. Pickup was a goalkeeper would you believe while W. Frisby was on loan from the newly formed RFC - that figures too.

Another Reserve player in the 1990s - Leroy WHALE and during 1943-44 we had a POND and a DRINKWATER - I kid you not!

We had a North and a West during the 50s playing for the Reserves

Just found a K Marsh who played one game in goal for Saints Res twice in 63-64. He let in 5 against Chelsea on his debut!! Any relation?

Derry - in the middle of a 2 week cooling off period! Don't book any flights with BA this autumn! A couple of reserve players from the 80s could have been included Gary Bull - animal Steve Guppy - fish

Viewing the haircut might be better than viewing the game

None in any first teams as far as I can remember

A couple of Potters

While waiting for our next signing I started to contemplate some players from yesteryear! Surnames of footballers are a lot different to the days when Barnsley always seemed to have an Awkwright and Newcastle a Milburn in their sides. Today’s flood of foreigners have certainly spiced up the team sheets on the back pages of programmes with Southampton being no exception. Flipping through the pages of the “Alphabet of the Saints” I noticed that Saints did not have a Smith – evidently the most common surname in England - on their books between George Smith leaving the club in 1949 and Paul Smith arriving in 2004. However since 1938 Saints have had no less than 7 players called Williams to make a first team experience and yet only 4 Jones (Ken, Ernie, Paul and Kenwynne). Who would ever had thought during the 2006-07 season a Radio Solent commentator would ever be able to describe the beginning of a Saints attack thus – “and Pele slides a through ball for Best to run onto”. Was Pele ever his real name? It was while flicking through the Alphabet that I suddenly noticed how well Xmas is represented in the ranks of Southampton FC surnames, for not only do we have an Angell (James William 1906-07), but also a Saul (Frank Lander 1967-70), a Gabriel (James 1967-72) and - wait for it - even a Christmas (Edwin Cecil Russell 1911-12). All we need to do now is to sign a Jesus from a Spanish club and we would be well set up for our own club nativity play! No prizes which role Dennis Wise would get The shortest surname is three letters – we had two Frys (CB 1900-03 and Roger 1970-72) while who could forget Ali Dia (1996-97). We have also had three Lees (Bert 1900-06, 1911-15, Sammy 1989-90 and David 1991-93) and a couple of Days (Alfred 1937-38 and Eric (1946-57). I also should not forget Walter Cox (1894-96) or Harry Eke (1913-14). Longest has to be Phillipson-Masters (Forbes 1976-78 ) with Wrigglesworth (William 1947-48 ) the longest individual surname but Andruszewski (Manny 1974-80) and Danny Higginbotham should get honorary mentions. Two countries have been named after Saints’ players, Ireland (Sidney 1911-15) and Jordan (Joe 1984-87, Frank 1908-10) and, so far one planet, Moon (Charles 1909-10). Could another country be arriving soon? – a Holland perhaps! One county is represented – Ollie Lancashire (Ollie 2008- ) and also one famous film studio Hollywood (Denis 1962-72), a film star Van Damme (Jelle 2004-05) and a famous London Street Carnaby (Tom 1938-39). Saints’ players have always been well connected. We have had an Earl(s) (Mick 1973-75) a couple of Kings (Bill 1934-39 and Ernest 1925-27), a Bishop (Alfred 1926-27), a Knight (Bill 1911-13), two Monks (Gary 1998 - 2003 and Frank 1910-12), a Dean (Norman 1963-66) and even a Prince (Percy 1908-20). From the animal kingdom we employed a Hare (Tommy 1965-66) a Bullock (James 1924-28 ) and a Venison (Barry 1995-97), while feathered players include Fred Bird (1907-08 ), Phil Kite (1984-86) and of course, Ted Drake (1931-34). Finally we must not forget Ernest Pike (1902-03) or Glenn ****erill (1985-94), nor Crabbe (Buster 1974-76 and perhaps now before I get completely carried away I will knock this post on the head with a Mallett (Joe 1946-53). Anyone remember any other interesting surnames?

I agree and the more thay bang in goals for us the quicker they will come to bigger club's attention but both men don't seem to have the right attitude (despite being hansomely rewarded) which is disappointing.

shame he's gone - more time wasted and less time to get someone else bedded in. One worry I have (and this is not criticising AP) is that the friendlies should be used to blend, settle and introduce players into each other's style but come Millwall we will have a team of virtual strangers lining up for us. Hearing some more disturbing stories about Pinnacle too which makes me even more annoyed about the time they wasted.