Fitzhugh Fella

No Chairman should take a footballing decision. Finance, personnel in fact everything but football decisions.

Just as a matter of interest it can't, of course, be libel if it is true. I did say IF!

If you had a copy of ITN you would note that they are not my quotes but ones lifted from the "press cuttings of the day" - our research is genuine, unlike your fallible memory.

Bit harsh banning him! I am not sure about the libel aspect of what he wrote but let's face it he was right about Wilde and I and many others were wrong. Sometimes things need to be in the open. This forum needs posters like GM regardless of whether you agree with him or not. Perhaps he should be let back on if he agrees to underwrite any action that is taken by the club?

The fringe of the Milton was close enough for a 15-year-old! I saw some fearful battles underneath the Toomers, most notably when Chelsea were in town, but we won't go there on this thread.

Actually if you check P 109 of ITN you will find Shanks exact words were "ale-house football".

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

I used to find the States the hardest place to get a result - I often rung the local press association or the sports desk of the local papers. In Anchorage, Alaska I was finally beaten.

Listening to the World Service on a flight deck of a 747

Topcat - although I have a position at Unite, through my role with BA cabin crew, I think they are a monolithic waste of space. As for my politics - well I usually end up voting Lib Dem because of where I live but politics has left me disillusioned too much these days to to get too excited, but I suppose I would say I am a bit of an old fashioned Labour person, not left, not right in an Ed Miliband sort of way. Otherwise thank you for your confidence although I have to say most if not all I hear these days is from outside the club. I would hate for anyone working for the club to get into trouble by confiding in me and it doesn't happen.

Accepting what you say do you think football clubs need "to manage the image they put in the public domain". Surely what you see is what you get? I suppose what I am trying to say - a bit cackhandedly - is do we, as fans need to have our club's image manipulated for our benefit.

Interesting points you raise. I don't know about THAT dinner. Could well have happened I suppose. I liked the report back, I like the words that NC spoke - it all made sense but like you say there was no "official" info given so was it a figment of Bick's PR and if so did it serve a genuine purpose if no one is sure it was factual? NC already has a reputation of "doing things his way" so why would he worry about employing someone like Bick to "spin" for him?

There is debate on other threads about David Bick's involvement in promoting Southampton FC and whether it is having the desired effect or does it ultimately cause fan alienation. PR companies working for football clubs is something that has only evolved in the last 10 or so years but is there a need? Do fans just want open honest up-to-date info which maybe good or bad or do they want to be kept happy with spin which may or may not be the total truth? Football clubs have not always been honest with their fans, especially when it came down to transfers fees and scandals but, by and large, you got somewhere to the real story through the local papers who were independant and not afraid to fall out with the board if neccessary. The likes of Ken Bates and co soon learnt the value of supressing or manipulating the media but it seems to me nowadays football clubs attach as much importance to how things are pitched rather than what actually takes place on the pitch. Even Rupert Lowe realised the advantages of good PR and I seem to remember the predecessor to this forum being infiltrated by especially hired PR only for it to spectacularly back fire when we realised we were being spun. So do we need it, is it helpful or will it end in tears? Is there room for the likes of David Bick in our football club? There are lots of accusations of people having agendas on this forum if they differ from the populist view but surely PR in football clubs is all about setting agendas?

I am not saying Cortese is wrong or out of order if the club buys his house, after all the club does not belong to us, it belongs to the group he represents and if they want to buy a house in Chilworth then that is their business. However at the same time it is not right that people argue that he is committed to the club because he "bought" with his own money, a house in Chilworth. And Nick - I accept that you were not attacking me but you have got to accept in return (as I have) that everyone supports the Saints different ways from those who give unstinting unswerving uncritical support, like yourself, to those who want to question virtually every move. We both want to end up in the same place but we all choose different routes to the summit and the sooner we all resist from accusing each other having agendas then so much the better.

You are getting tedious with your "agenda" theories. Anyone whose views you don't share has an "agenda". Perhaps you have an agenda - it certainly appears so.

I believe the house was actually purchased by the club. Not a criticism just making sure the facts are accurate.

Yes it could. Like I say I know nothing more than the rumour which I initially discounted as fabrication. Since it has come back to me from a completely different source and with credible embellishment. In football everything has its price I guess however I think there is enough integrity in the present owners to ensure whoever the club is sold to -big IF - that the club will be in good hands with people who can take us forward. However as I have said all along my motto is "better the devil you know", so I hope the Liebherr family decide to maintain the original plan.

God the irony here is so delicious!

Firstly Nick - it was not MY rumour, it was one which came to me and i sat on because i didn't believe it at the time. However having since learnt that ML was probably quite ill it set me wondering if there wasn't some truth in the stories. Also I don't think I said they were trying to sell but more a case of "if a good offer comes along". Finally for the record can I say I too hope this is just speculation.

I "reckon" nothing. I know nothing as I said. Just answering Derry's question.

Derry, I first heard this story about 2 months ago and it originated from an ex-player with good local connections and no political axe (ie not MLT, Franny etc). This was some weeks before Markus's sad passing. I really did not believe it although I suppose football clubs are always "for sale" (for the right price). However over the last week the rumour keeps coming back to me from other unconnected sources. I really do not want to believe it because being owned by the Liebherrs (and certainly while Markus was alive) you could ask for no better owners but perhaps things have now changed? Nicola could have lost his ambition as his friend is no longer alive and perhaps he hankers after returning to his pre-Saints way of life. I really do not know! If and it is a big if, there is a desire to sell let's hope they are selective to whom they sell. There are a lot of sharks out there and precious few good guys.

Alain your words are wise ones but one small rider - I wouldn't give a flying f*** about what anyone said about me if I was still comfortably behind a cloak of anonymity.

A fairly sound appraisal of where we are and why we are. However we now have no choice but to unite behind NC/NA. Let's hope we have finally found a winning formula. I just hope and pray NC is not already having second thoughts and looking to unload because "better the devil you know".

Thanks the gaffer - I too have been on the receiving end of some pretty nasty stuff from manji which has left me feeling a bit perplexed. He seems to think I hanker after some sort of position at SMS and gets really nasty. I think it must have something to do with my bust up with Lowe and can only assume as Mike was pretty anti too that that is the reason he feels so vitriolic. There is no need for it and it must be very hurtful for Mike to see such nastiness. I sincerely Manji reflects on his words.

Thanks Nick - apology accepted. Forums can be lethal. Going back to the OP I can in hindsight see where you are coming from but funnily enough it was not my intention to cause any "trouble". I was a little instrumental in getting the Kevin Moore appeal off the ground a few years back (although Ian Ritchie should get 99.99% credit for everything he has since done). I am interested that you regard my criticism as continually undermining the club. The only person I did try and destabilise was Rupert and only after he publicy undermined Stuart Gray in the Echo. I regarded his presence at SMS harmful from that moment and I pretty much stand behind that argument today. Like I said NC to me is the main man and I will support him 100% if for no other reason that there is simply no one else who can do what he can. As for Leon and Lawrie I have had big rows with both men over the years and I think both have had their day - as far as Saints are concerned - although in their day both men were committed to the cause in their own ways and contributed to our welfare. I do criticise a lot (mainly because there is a lot to criticise in modern football) and I am not one for sticking my head in the sand when it comes to Saints but I really do not want to see any more unrest in the forseeable future. I really hope NC is as committed as he says because the alternative does not bear thinking about. I also think those who made nasty remarks about Mike Osman should withdraw them because he certainly does not deserve the crap that wa sposted on here, whatever his "political" views maybe. He did a great job last week and I am still getting laughs of his sexual history and getting old watching porno films gags. Rgds Duncan