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TWar

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  1. So Jankewitz tops a tonne of premier league stats per 90. He made one good tackle, intercepted a pass, and made one good pass and then got sent off. So he tops tackles per 90, interceptions per 90, CBI per 90, and progressive passes per 90 for the whole league IIRC. I thought I'd mention it there as it shows why I use "minimum 1000 minutes" for my per 90 stats, there are always outliers if you allow sample size to drift a little small.
  2. I think we could see Forster head out, maybe back to Celtic. I think he'd be fine in a weaker league, has already shown he can do it there once pretty emphatically. He is the better of the two imo so probably the one we can shift. McCarthy will do as a second choice, just hope we buy well this time and don't get another Gunn.
  3. I have had a brief look at some other sides. Couple of things drop out. Newcastle are way overperforming and due to drop, Palace too. Brighton are way underperforming, Wolves had the most jarring drop off between seasons I've seen in a long time, Liverpool have quality underlying stats, should be right up there. To be honest, outside of saints I mostly do this for a fantasy football perspective. I personally think our first 11 is about top 10 quality, depth-wise I think we finished about right though. Teams like West ham/Everton/Arsenal/Leicester who we should be in and around to hit europe have much more impressive depth. Depressing fact, West ham have 6 midfielders (Bowen, Lingard, Benrahma, Lanzini, Fornals, and Soucek who isn't even an attacking mid) with a better xGI per 90 than any of ours, so areas like that I don't think we are as close as we would like.
  4. Yep it's very impressive, he pushes up very well into midfield intercept long passes quite often and makes great clearances on the front post when put along the ground. I did my stats per 90, which he was still a very impressive in second behind Cooper and level with Fofana. Interestingly Salisu is also appears in the top 20 when adjusted by minutes.
  5. Just noticed, great spot! Diallo has the highest tackle won % of any midfielder in the league who has played over 1000 minutes. Definitely going to edit the post and add that in.
  6. Some great points in here. Yeah goal involvement is xG + xA, and yeah I think Kyle is a tonne more valuable than that metric suggests. I do think we need more players who can make a final ball in general, and it's fine if thats not KWP but it does need to be someone, and formally it was Bertrand but now not so much. Regarding the Diallo point, again I do agree, he is clearly very good at tackling, 80% is incredibly high. The fact he has such a high % but has significantly less tackles for me suggests he isn't in the position to make them as much as he could be, but he is very young so hopefully that awareness will come with time. Recoveries are defined as gaining the ball when neither team has possession, so they are independent of tackles and intercepts, it is basically "winning second balls", if a player blocks a shot and you are first to latch onto a rebound, that is a recovery, similarly with a miss-control of the ball. Sometimes good recoveries can point to a good player next to you as if they put in a crunching tackle and you mop up the loose ball then they have a tackle and you have a recovery. Again I think they come with experience and game knowledge. I agree with you, I am very hopeful about Diallo, I don't think he fits Romeu's role yet but I think he will be a great option going forward with a bit more premier league experience.
  7. I don't personally have statistics on that but this was posted by "the other 14" twitter: So it certainly looks like he is good at progressing and dribbling the ball. and his success rate is apparently excellent. Bare in mind these are just for the other 14 teams and don't include the big 6 but still very impressive.
  8. In a way I think that most fullbacks when they get in positions like KWP does will whip a cross in, but we don't have anyone who is good in the air so normally he cuts it back to Theo/Armstrong on the outside of the box and they try to do something with it. Sometimes I think from this we should look to bring in a target man to give us another dimension and unlock KWP, as he is a very good crosser imo.
  9. It's a good point, I think KWP is very good at progressing the ball which we require with our CM's sitting so deep. He isn't much of a goal threat but he is very good at receiving long passes/beating players in order to lay the ball back to an attacking player in the final third for them to create something. Hard thing to measure statistically of course.
  10. No worries, really glad you enjoyed it. I tried to include a section on Ralph but every time I used a statistic to analyse him it seemed like it was difficult to control for other factors eg. I was trying to link Ralphs line up consistency to our success but it felt like I was putting the cart before the horse. To say "us picking the same team a lot makes us win" felt disingenuous as I could more easily say "when we are winning we don't change about so much" which is more intuitive. And it was hard to divide between Ralphs influence and the factors mentioned above regarding injuries so I just gave it a miss.
  11. Hi everyone. Last year I compiled and posted a statistical analysis of our season and a lot of you seemed to really enjoy it. I will open up this years one with a disclaimer, however. This is a post about the statistics of Southamptons season and will use statistical techniques such as expected goals/assists, if you don't see the validity in these methods this post won't be of any interest to you. I completely respect your right to the opinion that these metrics are not worth considering, but it isn't my opinion and I don't want comments beneath this to be dominated by the same two or three posters arguing about "playing football on a spreadsheet" or whatever. Especially since I have actually put quite a lot of work into this. So without further ado: A statistical analysis of the 20/21 Southampton season: What went right and then went horribly wrong in quick succession? In this post I will seek to analyse our season, which players did well, which didn't, what we could require in the summer (I intend to do a later post statistically analysing summer targets/signings if people enjoy this), and possible reasons for our end-of-season collapse. Most data will be acquired from OPTA stats via a subscription to fantasyfootballscout.com, when other data is presented it will be sourced. Not everyone wants to read a boring long post, so the main interesting points will be bolded and underlined. Squad analysis Goalkeepers I considered the idea of putting strikers first and goalkeepers last in an attempt to open with positives but lets not beat around the bush. Both our starting goalkeepers have been, statistically, woeful. The most important job of a goalkeeper is to make saves. McCarthy has the joint lowest goals prevented per 90 in the league (-0.32), joint with Guiata of Crystal palace, of any keeper in the league that has played over 500 minutes. Ryan is lower in total as well and has technically played over 500 minutes but across two clubs which makes the number hard to judge. From this, we see that his shot stopping is dreadful. Forster is better with a goals prevented per 90 of (-0.14) which still puts him in the bottom 25% but is at least not an outlier in how poor he has been. So the obvious answer is to play Forster? Lets look into that. Forster is betrayed by the type of save he makes. Forster has made 20 saves this season with a pretty dreadful save % of 64.5% (McCarthy is 63.4%). Of those saves however, not a single one was a catch, with 14 parries and 6 punches. For most goalkeepers catches make up about 25% of their saves, Forster has 0%. He constantly puts us in danger with his poor handling skills, pushing the ball out for set-pieces or dangerously back into play. Forsters recoveries per 90 is 7.05, is only better than Ederson, Mendy, Schmeichel, Patricio, and both manchester united goalkeepers. That may seem like prestigious company, however these goalkeepers have low recoveries due to their teams high possession and low amount of time with the ball in their half (with the exception of Patricio who also is very poor in this area). Other goal keepers who face a similar number of balls into the box as Forster are significantly ahead. McCarthy, for example, makes 7.48 recoveries per 90 which is still poor compared to most goalkeepers adjusting for possession, but better than Forster. From this we can see Forsters ability to claim the ball really lets him down, and justifies McCarthy having to play against cross-heavy teams. Finally we look to distribution. Our side relies quite heavily on Vestergaard to make long balls from the back. In fact in the closing games of the season McCarthy was taking goal kicks to Vestergaard who was stood a couple of feet away from him, who then took the goal kick for him. This is not normal, often a short goal kick is taken but normally the goalkeeper is sufficiently trusted to pick a pass incase the CBs are marked, we do not trust McCarthy to do this, and hence he no longer takes his own goal kicks. For this we turn to FBRef for info as FFS didn't have details. This resource only looks at primary goalkeepers for a team so we only have stats on McCarthy, however his launched ball (over 40 yards) completion % is a shameful 29.5%, rock bottom of the league and a full 16% lower than the median result. Whilst this website doesn't provide details on Forster, it does display Southampton's over all launch completion % which is 29.2%, this is EVEN WORSE, showing Forster is even worse at longer passing than McCarthy. We are still rock bottom of the league by this metric. Our need for a passer, like Vestergaard, is artificially larger than it should be as both our goalkeepers are embarrassingly bad at passing compared to the rest of the league. Conclusion Our goalkeepers are both dreadful, McCarthy is the worst at stopping shots in the league and Forster can't claim a ball or keep hold at all, whilst also being a well below average shot stopper. Both are worse kickers than anyone else in the league and their divergence from the mean when it comes to distribution is, frankly, staggering. Centerbacks This section provides more positivity than the previous, however it also offers the biggest indicator as to the reasons behind our drop in form of any. I am separately talking about centerbacks and fullbacks this season owing to having a lot to discuss for both and them having very different roles. A lot of people noticed the first sign of our decline was the loss of Vestergaard from this side. But was he that important, and was he really performing that much better than his replacement? Yes. A commonly implemented strategy for us this season was to funnel attacking players out wide with narrow fullbacks and deep sitting defensive midfielders and then to win the ball in the air when the crosses come in and rely on the excellent 1v1 defending of KWP and Bertrand to ensure that players couldn't run into the box from wide and play along the floor. A clever, if simple way of defending. This relies on three major facts to be true: 1) The fullbacks must be good at 1v1 defending 2) Our midfield must break up play on the edge of the box 3) The centerbacks must be able to win the ball in the air. We shall move onto the first two points in the next sections but first lets look at our centerbacks in the air. Vestergaard won 3.26 aerial duels per 90, putting him in 11th for CBs in the league (who played over 1000 minutes). Vestergaard does not carry the full burden of aerial defending however. Bednarek wins 2.64 aerial duels per 90, still putting him very respectably in the top 25 centerbacks in the league. Here is, however, where the problems start. Stephens is dreadful in the air. While Vestergaard and Bednarek achieved 3.26 and 2.64 aerial wins per 90, Stephens made a much less impressive 1.12. This makes puts him very low in the league for this stat. His win % is 52%, with Vestergaard and Bednarek achieving 64.5% and 64.2% respectively. As Salisu was out, losing Vestergaard completely changed how we had to defend. Stephens very poor aerial ability ment we could no longer rely on frustrating teams by forcing them to launch the ball into the box, as now that is a viable strategy. So what about Salisu, does he have what it takes to step up if/when Vestergaard leaves. Salisu wins 2.13 aerial duels per 90, not on the same level as Vestergaard or Bednarek but significantly more than Stephens. It's not all about aerial duels though, sometimes the fullbacks or CMs won't be able to screen threats to the CBs and they will need to act on the ground. Vestergaard has a tackles won % on the ground of 74%, this is significantly higher than Bednarek or Stephens 60% and 61% respectively. This means that if Vestergaard is forced to be the last ditch option then he is a lot more reliable at it than his replacement or Bednarek, yet another reason his loss really hurt us. Salisu, as those who have watched him have noticed, is excellent at tackling on the ground. He has a tackle win % of 82%, much higher than every other player in our team, if he had played over 1000 minutes he'd be 8th best at this in the league (over 1000 minutes), as is he's played just over 850 so could still be statistically inaccurate. If he can learn to be as effective in the air as the other two, and he's not miles off, he will be a superstar. Conclusion We REALLY missed Vestergaard. Stephens is worse in almost every regard, especially at defending in the air which is so key to how we play. Without Vestergaard, and as said earlier, with keepers who cannot claim the ball well at all, we are not at all well served by funnelling players out wide as we did for the first half of the season. Bednarek may be poor at tackling and have a gaff in him but dropping him for Stephens would be very illadvised considering his dreadful ability at heading and not much better anything else. Salisu is a star in the making who just needs more pitch time. Fullbacks Our fullbacks, as stated in the previous section are essential to how we play. In this section we will discuss the decline of Ryan Bertrand and arguably our most important loss between the first and second halves of the season, Kyle Walker-Peters. First, let's discuss Ryan Bertrand. Bertrand has been one of our most reliable and important players over the last five years of the club. He has in the past been a rock solid stalwart at the back and a genuine threat going forward, but it is obvious he is in decline. Figure 1 shows a plot of Bertrands performance since arrival, xGI numbers for 2015/16 weren't available and were hence extrapolated backwards (this is not an accurate method, do not pay too much head). Figure 1 - Bertrands decline over time, CBI is clearances + blocks + interceptions As you can see from this plot, Bertrand has steadily declined with regards to defensive output. He still puts up ok numbers but nowhere near the league leading quality he provided in 2015/16. Offensively we can really see what has changed with Bertrand this season specifically. He has dropped by a huge degree since last season, providing less than half the expected goal involvements of last season and well below his average since 17/18 which is the last source of accurate data. Bertrands decline in defence and attack are clear and pronounced and we are correct to move him on, with offense being the biggest decline this season specifically. Kyle Walker-Peters is a great player, and a good shout for our most important player of the season. His tackles won % is second in the defence after Salisu at 78%, this is amongst the highest in the league for fullbacks with over 1000 minutes. Going forward, however, he is a bit of a non-entity with an expected goal involvement of 0.07, lower than Bertrand. Owing to this, with Bertrands decline our fullbacks offer very little going forward. This is an issue we will no doubt be looking to address in the summer, and a possible reason why JWP was brought into RB when we were chasing the game against West Ham in the final game of the season. So how damaging was his absence? Well, as stated above the 1v1 defending ability of our fullbacks is key to how we defend and our ability to show players outside. As stated earlier, our two replacements in that role, Bednarek and Stephens, have a tackle % of ~60% each to KWP's 78%, they were not up to the task of 1v1 defending which was required of our replacement RB. I also tested a personal hypothesis of mine, that KWP was rushed back from injury too early and wasn't fully fit. I believe this because after coming back he looked much less effective and had a couple of other spells out the side with flare ups. Before his injury KWP had a tackle % 77% and a CBI (see fig caption for definition) of 3.34 per 90. After his injury his tackle % stayed reasonably consistent at 79% but his CBI dropped to 2.9. Not conclusive evidence but potentially indicative of a niggling injury. Conclusions Bertrands decline defensively has been slow and steady, his decline in attack has been swift. He needed to be replaced. KWP offers little going forward, so without Bertrand carrying that burden we don't create enough from fullback. He is however excellent defensively 1v1, something neither Bednarek or Stephens can say, therefore they were both woefully inadequate to replace him. We need quality at LB and depth in the summer. We already knew this, but the numbers support it. Central Midfielders JWP had an excellent season again. He lead the league for goals from set pieces and assists from set pieces, was second in the league for successful corners, and first for accuracy on target (over 10 taken). As a holding midfielder he also has done great with defensive output. He is top 14th for aerial duels won for midfielders in the premier league, 13th for tackles won, and 2nd for recoveries. I could go on about JWP but I don't think it's very productive to keep pointing out how good he is, and this review is more about where our season turned and went wrong. So we really should analyse his partners. Only two players won more tackles per 90 than Romeu this season in midfielder - Ndidi and Djenepo (surprisingly) (again only including people who have played over 1000 minutes, top in the league is Jankewitz). Romeu was also formidable for recoveries, getting 7th most recoveries in the league per 90. So, after injury, was Diallo up to doing the job of Romeu? No. Below is a table of Diallo vs Romeu for defensive ability: As can be seen, Romeu is well ahead on almost every metric. One which Diallo does exceed on is his tackles won % which is the best for any midfielder in the league (over 1000 minutes played), therefore if he gains the awareness of Romeu then he does have the potential to be an excellent defensive midfielder (Thanks to Cartman for pointing this out). Diallo is a better passer than Romeu with a pass % of 85% (only bettered in our team by JWP with 86%) to Romeu's 83%, and creates more chances than Romeu (0.73 vs 0.69 per 90) but he will not fill in his job when it comes to winning the ball back. Conclusion JWP is brilliant. Diallo can pass well and has all the tools to be an amazing player however at the moment he is not doing the job of Romeu defensively and when Romeu is out we will really miss him. Attacking midfield Attacking midfield was, statistically speaking, our second biggest weak spot this season. For expected goal involvement per 90, we didn't have a single player in the top 50 in the league for midfielders. Our best midfielder for creating chances was Ward-Prowse, who primarily operates as a holding midfielder, which is very poor. Below is a table of different attacking midfielders for our side and how they performed on different attacking attributes. In this CC stands for chance created and FTSP stands for final third pass completed, finishing is calculated by G - xG. This are all per 90. One surprising stat here is the creative output of Redmond. Redmond tops our attacking midfielders for expected assists, chances created, and final third successful passes. This could be due to his playing striker more often than some others however. Armstrong is our best finisher and our best assister on paper, and carries good goal threat. It is important to note for Armstrong that he played a significant number of games as a center mid and, therefore, his attacking stats are maybe slightly misleading. Walcott is also very creative, making good chances and getting a good number of assists. Minimino has more goal threat than our other players but is not very useful elsewhere and his assist potential is very low. Djenepo and Tella are not competing at the moment, they look good but statistically speaking and without confirmation bias it does make sense why Ralph benched Tella for Redmond consistently based on their respective outputs. Conclusion We need improvement in this area. No one is very good, Armstrong puts up OK numbers and finishes well which inflate them somewhat but we need to sign a good attacking mid. Minimino may be an ok option for scoring goals but that could just be sample size. Tella and Djenepo need more practice, neither is at a top level yet. Strikers Finally, that brings us on to strikers. Danny Ings is still very good. He put up 0.48 goals per 90 this season, joint 6th with Calvert-Lewin and Bamford for players who have played over 1000 minutes. He is the second best finisher in the league when it comes to strikers (behind Iheanacho) overperforming xG by 0.13 goals per 90. If he had stayed fit all season he would have been very close to another 20 goal season. His injury likely cost us 7.6 goals, which would have been very meaningful in making our way up the table. We should try to keep Danny at all costs, when he is fit he is CL level atleast and has been for two seasons. Adams has had an ok season too. He has scored 9 goals, which puts him 14th in the league. His finishing has again been pretty poor, underperforming xG by 0.85. He is 13th best for xG in the league, so it does appear his finishing isn't hindering him as much as it seems however. Adams is a superb creative force, getting the 6th most expected assists per 90 of any forward in the league this stat shows he is contributing greatly in his own right and not just riding Ings' coat tails Our other forwards, Redmond and Tella, achieved 0.1 and 0.05 xA per 90. Adams also achieved 0.1 which shows Redmond is not as far behind Adams creatively as some might think, Adams is overperfoming his expected assists by 0.06 whereas Redmond is overperforming by 0.05 giving Adams a slightly better actual assist total. Ings also puts up 0.05 expected assists per 90, adding further credence to the idea he is the main man scoringwise and Adams/Redmond are very much in a supporting role. Adams scores 0.29 goals per game from an expected 0.33, which is far in excess of Redmonds 0.1 goals from 0.15 expected. This shows that while Redmond rivals Che for assist potential, with scoring he has some ways to go. Tella is not near either on goals or assists as can be seen in the above table. Conclusion Ings is great and we must keep him and keep him fit, could easily tear it up at a top side. Adams is surprisingly proficient at assisting and is putting up fine numbers goalwise for a striker in midtable, to push on we need someone next to him atleast equally as good. Redmond assists well but doesn't score, Tella has a way to go. Overall Conclusion and attempted answer to "where did it all go wrong" One narrative persists all the way through this analysis: our second string of players are bad. We have some obvious weaknesses in our first team this season (goalkeeper, attacking mid, leftback) but the biggest thing from all this is just how far behind our back ups are. Stephens is miles behind Vestergaard in basically every regard, Bednarek is a laughable replacement for the role KWP does, Diallo is not currently doing Romeu's job as well but has definite quality, our attacking mids all have massive gaps, and Redmond has no where near the goal output to replace Ings. I suggest from this that in the first half of the season we were a very delicate machine that worked only when every cog was in place. When the cogs broke we replaced them with elastic bands and chewing gum and by the time the key players were back, we had nothing to play for, the players did not look at all fit as if they had been rushed back, and our confidence was in a toilet. I hope you enjoyed reading this, or skimming it as most probably will as it is a massive essay. The facts I posted here are true (to the best of my knowledge and ability), but my opinions and editorialising are not and you are welcome and encouraged to draw your own conclusions from what I have presented.
  12. Ralph made it clear we are not in the market for another CM when talking about Delaney. JWP, Romeu, Diallo, Smallbone and if needed Armstrong is what we will have in that position next season, most likely.
  13. Given Henry is less likely, who was my preferred option at LB, who of the players we are linked to is the ideal scenario now? Firpo and Taveres look good to me, not sure about Williams and not at all persuaded by Tanganga or Neco Williams, the latter looked pretty woeful to me when he played for liverpool.
  14. Yeah it snuck up on me too, I swear he was ok a couple of seasons ago but he has been dreadful this year, palace fans hate him.
  15. Guaita is a dreadful keeper, one of the very few in the league worse than Macca.
  16. I was just joking. That Duckhunter chap always talks about how soft we are, and always calls things pony. I amuse myself at least. TBH I do agree we need to be more resilient mentally but I think us throwing games away is due to a mix between a high energy style, some players with questionable fitness, and a weak weak bench so we have to run our players into the ground and by the end they can't keep going as well.
  17. Pony
  18. I think he probably suspected he was going to become more of a bit part player for us going forward and decided that if he was going to sit on a bench, it might as well be a side pushing for champions league qualification rather than one stuck firmly in midtable boring obscurity.
  19. TWar

    Danny Ings

    If he'd signed a deal they would announce it immediately. No sense holding off. He hasn't signed, but we are confident he will depending on the offers that come in and quality of clubs. I think that is still the case and the kit release doesn't change that.
  20. I do actually agree with this. It's weird because someone came along and acted like Rose was quality so we all ended up having to be negative but I think Rose would be ok as a backup/competition, he'd have to be cheap though but I doubt he'll be flush with options. He has had a hard time, partly due to mental health issues from what I understand, and a change of scenery might help with that like Forster to Celtic did. He was pretty awful at Newcastle tbh, but I think he had a hard situation to come in midseason. As a back up for us with a full preseason I think he'd be ok. Rumour has it the reason Rose didn't get farmed out was because he was only offered opportunities in the championship and in smaller leagues and he thought he was better than that, famously thinking Milan were interested when they weren't. He refused to drop down a league and no top league club wanted him on a loan or on his wages so he stayed and saw out his contract. Would definitely be worried the effect no football will have on his sharpness at his age, but as a bench option we can steadily reintroduce him. First team option would be mental though.
  21. Doherty signed 6 months after KWP joined us. Pretty impressive grasp of facts there... Also Rose was awful for Newcastle hence why he didn't sign for anyone for 20/21 and spent the season playing FIFA (and two youth team games, both lost)
  22. Think you might be confusing "on the bench, used in cup games" with "not even registered, not training with the first team, watches games from his couch with a bag of crisps" there champ.
  23. We can do better than lads who don't even make the spurs squad though and don't play football all season. We are also not trabzonspor.
  24. Newcastle aren't significantly more appealing than us, I don't think that rules us out getting someone of his quality. Why would someone leaving Leeds who they don't want be aiming better than us? We can aim higher than second choice players from newly promoted sides. Williams wasn't allowed to leave as United were worried about depth until the end of the season with fixture congestion, there is every chance he will leave now given he barely plays. And if Brentford don't come up we could easily stretch to the £15m or so he is quoted to cost. Also all this is irrelevant because Rose is not very good, you responded to my post with a direct question in it but then responded to someone else. Why do you think Rose is any good when he couldn't even make the spurs squad and hence hasn't played football in a year, and was rejected last minute by trabzonspor?
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