Francis1947

Could someone educate me on what exactly Lalanna brings to the side now. I accept that when he was with is a few years ago he was a clever player who could manipulate an opening. But not now ! He is an aged guy now who cannot survive in the Prem. His only attribute it seems to me is to pointlessly pitch to the ref and get booked. Is that what we signed him for ! And I really don't buy into the younger players taking on board his wisdom and experience,either in a match or in training. Someone earlier listed the utterly pointless signings this lot have made in the last 18 months. Stewart, Cornet Brereton Diaz Archer etc. Can we add Lallana to that list ?

A P.S. on my last post. I meant to post this on the West Ham game thread ! Apologies. My excuse is too many g and t's already and it's only 11 am on Christmas Day morning !

First of all and most importantly....a very Happy Christmas Day to all fellow Saints fans on this website. May you all have a great day surrounded by family and friends and be happy and content. Also it's a bit of an opportunity to eat alot and drink a bit ! I think we all feel this just might be the start of a new era under a new Manager. Is there a chance of a Great Escape The odds arae against us....but maybe just maybe eh !!!! Just a thought. Many on here have seen a lot more of Bella-Kotchap than me and are of the opinion that he really is our best central defender . I havent enough knowledge or opinion to make a judgement on his past behaviour and the reasons he's been unselectable. Wouldnt that be left field if this guy threw him into the team for tomorrow. A bit far fetched I know and he probably hasnt seen enough of him or any other player on the training pitch....but ? Any thoughts ?

Reading all the posts on this thread ,I think there are two schools of thought in our strategy on who to replace Martin with. The first is that we are already buggered so the search is on for the best bloke to manage us in the Championship next year with the aim of trying to get us ap again I think the second is that we have a minuscule chance of still acquiring enough points to survive. Far fetched I know and it would have to break all records but I for one still have a little hope that it can be done. Look I'm a Saints fan so forever the optimistic. So if we still accept that it's not completely over we need to appoint a man who knows how to eke out a draw or two and heaven forbid maybe even a win. Now if the new man can do this over say the next five games and the three or four sides above us are still struggling to acquire points we could start to put pressure on. I do realise I'm grabbing at straws and we could and should have done this week's ago. So for me, out of the possible available managers available it could be Moyes. He has experience of the Prem and has the nouse and savvyness of getting alot out of a mediocre set of players. I wouldn't want it to be a long term appointment. Maybe just a one season one with a big bonus at the end if he succeeds. Surely that would be worth it financially to our club. We could then talk of ' projects ' and ' long term plans and goals ' later.

Not sure I need to add to the many excellent posts from fellow fans who love our club and have been in utter despair at the stuff we have seen since the start of the season. But this is my two pennies worth all the same ! The general consensus I think is that Martin was totally out of his depth regarding strategy,tactics and team selection. A marvellous example of number 3 was the decision to include Sulemana in the team on Sunday and then to withdraw him after 15 minutes. Add in what to me was his arrogance and his ego and the thought of many of us was the way he continually set us up to play was more to do with his future career prospects and reputation andwith little thought about the future of our club once he buggered off. Two questions obviously remain now. Who next and what if we really can get out of this mire. My thoughts on the first one is that I haven't alot of confidence in who this lot get in now. There are still 66 points to play for. An old boy can but dream eh ! And on the second point. I'm a Saints fan of over 65 years. Been through thick and thin. Mostly thin I think. But if we could make the right short term appointment..and my preference is Moyes. And his pragmatism and nouse could somehow manage let's say a win and a draw in his first 5 matches and Ipswich and Wolves and Leicester haven't fully got away, we have a tiny miniscule chance. I do want our club to stay in the Prem. It's the place to be despite all it's inconsistenies in how the bigger clubs are treated and the ridiculous Sky induced kick off times. But it's still better than going down and having to endure playing the Blue Few again next year.

Not sure I need to add to the many excellent posts from fellow fans who love our club and have been in utter despair at the stuff we have seen since the start of the season. But this is my two pennies worth all the same ! The general consensus I think is that Martin was totally out of his depth regarding strategy,tactics and team selection. A marvellous example of number 3 was the decision to include Sulemana in the team on Sunday and then to withdraw him after 15 minutes. Add in what to me was his arrogance and his ego and the thought of many of us was the way he continually set us up to play was more to do with his future career prospects and reputation andwith little thought about the future of our club once he buggered off. Two questions obviously remain now. Who next and what if we really can get out of this mire. My thoughts on the first one is that I haven't alot of confidence in who this lot get in now. There are still 66 points to play for. An old boy can but dream eh ! And on the second point. I'm a Saints fan of over 65 years. Been through thick and thin. Mostly thin I think. But if we could make the right short term appointment..and my preference is Moyes. And his pragmatism and nouse could somehow manage let's say a win and a draw in his first 5 matches and Ipswich and Wolves and Leicester haven't fully got away, we have a tiny miniscule chance. I do want our club to stay in the Prem. It's the place to be despite all it's inconsistenies in how the bigger clubs are treated and the ridiculous Sky induced kick off times. But it's still better than going down and having to endure playing the Blue Few again next year.

Toussaint Good point you made. It's not just football is it but this incessant instruction from on high that is just sucking the joy out of life in general. I'm in moaning old git now but my paricular bugbear is being told by some young weather person on TV ( Thomas Schaffernacker is my particular bette noire ! ) to not just give us the bloody weather but then tell us to wrap up warm, wear a scarf or take an umbrella !!!! I am 77 years of age and managed to just about survive all weathers up to now without the advice of young Thomas. In my 22 years in the Royal Navy I cannot remember Thomas or any of his ilk being around to help me weather the storms of the North Atlantic or particuarly so, the impressive seas of the South Atlantic in 1982 ! There....I feel better now !

I would like to read other peoples thoughts on the almost second by second coaching that Martin does from the touchline. It's a thing I think that came into the game about 20 years ago and to be fair to Martin he isn't the worst in the Prem. I think he's mid table which is where we would all like the club to be at the moment. When I attend St.Marys I often take a look at his antics on the touchline. On the telly you are not shown it as much but in a match he is almost constantly shouting, cajoling and instructing the players. Even down to where they stand at a throw in or a corner. It is almost non stop. What does this achieve and is it something to encourage ? Any thoughts ? You would like to think that the detail of how an opposing team is going to play would have been done at Stapleford in mid-week and you wouldnt require this almost forensic wave of second by second instructions . I personally think that it's part of the " profile " of a manager now. They are the stars ! They like to be seen and heard and to know that they have complete power over the team and the players. It's the modern way ! Now in other posts I have said that my other winter sport Iove is Rugby Union. It is a sport that I have liked and admired for more than 60 years. I have been a Northampton Rugby Club member for more than 20 years and the contrast in the match day role and behaviour of the Manager and the coaching staff coudnt be more different. I attend maybe 4-6 home matches at Franklin Gardens a season. My missus and I sit in the same seats at every match. They are in the back row of the stand where Phil Dowson, the Director of Rugby, Lee Radford the Defence Coach and Sam Vesty the Attack coach sit. I'm fortunate enough to be 8 seats away. And I often glance at them when a match is underway. Each has a computer screen in front of them and you can see they quietly discuss how the match is going between. They occasionally contact some of the more junior coaching staff who are on the Northampton Bench. However this is rarely to discuss or change strategy with the match underway and mostly to do with substitutions whne there's an injury. There are no minute instructions, no shouting, no caterwalling and waving of arms. The work has been done on the training pitch the week before, strategy and tactics are agreed and the coaching team have faith in theie players to carry them out to the best of their ability. Of course it doesnt always work but the difference in the two sports is staggering. And this bahaviour is widespread throught the game, both in club and international rugby. Not too many prima donnas in Rugby. And this is a game that has hundreds of more nuances and techicalities than football and also a game I might say that is refereed to a much higher standard to the dross we ofen see at St.Marys. One funny story to end with. A few weeks ago I attended match at Northampton and we were attacking 5 yards from the try line. I think it was a back rower, Tom Pearson who made a mistake and the chance to score was lost. There's a big screen at Franklin Gardens and just as the ball was dropped the camera switched to the coaching team. And Sam Vesty was effin and jeffin with the best of them. The camera switched away but Vesty knew he had been caught out and the whole ground was laughing. the Camera switched back to Vesty who stood up and turned to each quarter of the ground and apologised.It was a good moment. So there is passion and intensity in the sport but its not on show so deliberately as football now So, I would just like to know other Saints fans opinions on Martins behaviour o the touchline.....and does it help and achieve anything at all ?

And to continue this theme " We know he's fucking useless Cos when we try to attack We sometimes get to the halfway line And then we always pass it back "

I think that's a good post of yours Turkish and sums up perfectly the message that Martin is now putting out there to cover his arse. The arrogance and ego is shining through now. None of this is the great Gurus fault. It's the players, the fans but not his. I do hope the rumours are true that this charlatan is going today but I'm not confident it's based on any real itk

Fabrice Not sure I was too clear with my desciption of how the Ref / TMO intercation works this season in the Rugby Premiership. My point is that when a contentious incident occurs at Northampton be it a scoring of a try or foul play of any kind, we the crowd can hear exactly the conversation between the officials live and in real time. We dont have to wait for the Rugby Premier League to release an audio of that conversation after the match, either to supporters or broadcaster or journalists. So, we the supporters can hear and understand how and why a decision is made then and there. It is illuminating and I have to say mostly impressive. Protocols, procedures etc are followed to the letter. In my opinion, the standard of rugby refeering is far far higher than the stuff we have to endure following Saints. There are now a fair number of ex players who have pursued a career as a referee in rugby union. Something I think almost unheard of in football. And this season, we have enjoyed a couple of matches being refereed by females. And very good they were too ! So I enjoy both sports and just by coincedence the two teams I follow are both " Saints "

My other game that I follow is Rugby Union. As well as going to see some Saints matches at St.Marys I am also a Northampton Rugby club member. I make the drive up to Northampton to see their home matches about 4 maybe 5 times a season Now in any Rugby union match if you purchase a set of headphones, you can listen to the interaction between referee and the TMO. Before this season ,you could only listen in on the refs microphone so you could listen in to their on field conversations with the players and only his feed to the TMO. I have to say that the quality of decision making between the officials..including the linesmen...and the strict protocols they follow and go through to award a try or give a yellow or red card is extremely impressive. And that is in a game that is a much more technical one with many more rules than the round ball game. I wonder why the Football authorities are so reluctant to hear the process between ref and VAR. You can only surmise that we wouldn't be too impressed !

I agree with Whitey. There is such a thing as playing it out from the back but in my opinion we don't actually do this under Martin. What we do is play it to each other in our own half in ever decreasing circles until there is no where else to go and we panic, make an impossible pass to a guy who has someone up his arse and we lose it ! Want a small bet tonight ? Somewhen in the match tonight we might just release someone up the flanks. It might be KWP or Dibling. We might all see that the obvious next ball is to quickly put it onto the opponents penalty area. You never know, there just might be someone on the end of it ! However inevitably that player will se Martin shouting instructions from the touchline. The player..whoever it is...will turn inwards or back. The easy ball will be sideways to a player in midfield. By then the Brighton defence will be back in position and organised. So they in turn will pass backwards to either Harwood Bellis or Stephens. Nothing on so they will pass back to Mcarthy who will panic and belt the ball 70 yards to no one in particular,all advantage will be lost and back we go in ever decreasing circles again. Can you tell I'm pissed off with this !

I'm sorry to do this to you chaps but somehow it's strangely cathartic to write this and get it off my chest ! So..the skript for tomorrow night. He will make a couple of little tweaks to the side. They won't achieve anything but maybe Manning in, Fraser out, possibly Archer in, Armstrong out. Who cares. Not me any more ! None of it makes any sense any more. And so we will trot out under the night sky at Brighton. And maybe for possibly 20 / 30 mins we will make scores of short passes to a team mate,all in our own half. Sideways or backwards. We will watch whoever is up front...and it really doesn't matter this part of the script , that they will make runs But no one ever finds them or even makes an attempt to fire a ball over the top. Oh no because that isn't the way our Manager plays football is it and not part of his ' philosophy ' And so they tire and eventually gi e up And then somewhen at the end of the firts half or maybe, if we are fortunate, early in the second,someone will make a ricket by trying to play an impossible pass probably in our own penalty area and Brighton will score and go on to win. And then after the match the stats will be analysed and it will appear that we have had maybe 60 % possession , maybe more ! and the pundits will approve and say what a brave little club we are to play in this way. And then Martin will be interviewed post match and say how brave we were and he's proud of his players and don't despair, it will all c9me good in the end And we the suffering fans will watch Wolves and Leicester and Crystal Palace all having the courage in trying to get away by changing manager or actually drawing or even winning a match. Imagine that !!! But not us eh. It's like some Kafkuesqe comedy but it's not funny. There..do I feel better ? Not really but I will watch tomorrow as we all will .

May I respond to a couple of good posts here on Martin. One posted to please put us out of this bloody misery and allow the season to end now and our club be relegated. That sums up my feelings right now. And a second wrote that by the time the Board have the courage to put an end to this madness , we will be unable to recover this season but much more importantly in my eyes, if we had abandoned this nonsense in how we play and we might just have survived this year in the Prem, we had the foundations for a decent team. I wrote two weeks ago after the loss at Wolves that although in despair at the way this man insists on how we play, we still had a chance of surviving if we got rid and brought a pragmatist in like Moyes as a replacement on a short 1 year contract. I also said at that time that 4 maybe 5 teams had not got away from us yet. All it would take would be 2 decent results...a win and a draw!...and we would still be in the mix. We are not now ! Clubs have got away and we are mired at the bottom. I cannot understand why a club like Leicester can get rid of Cooper this weekend and our Board are still backing this guy. We are being slaughtered on the altar of the ego of this foolish man. I have known disappointment and almost despair in the desperate times following Saints for 65 years but nothing like this. It just isn't enjoyable any more t follow this utter dross and then hear his bizarre post match interviews. We are lost and it's my opinion that we might just go into freefall when relegated this year.

Last post this evening. I have ranted enough. From their posts it appears to me that there are some supporters of our Club who sorta think that even if we are relegated and that would be heartbreaking, it wouldnt be catastrophic. Some have said that back in the Championship next year, we would still be one of the better clubs and have an excellent chance of promotion again. I profoundly have to disagree. If we do go down with a record low points total.....maybe by Christmas....our club would struggle to recover from that. Some have saidt with our pool of players we could bounce back up again. I think that casually expects that the players we have will stay with us. I think that will not happen. I accept that not many would be looked at by existing Prem clubs. But the decent ones we have will, in my opinion be on their way. Ramsdale, Hardwood-Bellis, KWP, Dibling probably. And I think that people ignore downward spirals. Can you imagine the reputation of our club if we are relegated with say 15 points ! I fear we are a bit of a laughing stock now with the way we play and the results it produces. Add in Martins uttery ludicrous post match conferences and his utterings on each match we play. Look at what he said again today . " It is what it is " !!!!!! What the hell does that mean ! Every team is waiting for us and rubbing their hands with glee. They know what we see every Saturday. We start quite brightly, we play some quote impressive patterns in our half, we utter no threat at all, forwards make runs that are almost always ignored, we re-cycle again and again, sideways and backwards and get absolutly no bloody where and then we make a ricket and the opposition pounces. Rant over. I'm done. Sleep well all Saints fans. Will we feel better tomorrow ? I very much doubt it !

A couple of posters have made the point that Moyes is available. Now, ever the optimist, that all Saints fans have had to be over many years, if Martin goes this weekend, we still have a chance of surviving in this league. It's a small one but 4 / 5 other teams have still not gotten away from us. There is still hope. Not much and I know I'm grabbing at straws Now, Ive never been a great fan of Moyes bit if Martin goes, we have to be uttely pragmatic on choosing wh his succesor will be. We definitely do not want another " up and coming "young Manager from a lower league who has " ideas " on how we play and we use us as a stepping stone again. Moyes has experience in the Prem over many years. He is hard nosed and has a bit of nouse in dragging every last advantage out of a poor side and gaining precious precious points. I think he did pretty well at West Ham for a while. So, give the guy a 1 year contract and a large bonus to keep us up, by a point, by goal difference !....anything ! Surely it would be worth it to Sports Replubic to keep us in this league this season and regroup for next. In anothe post today I did say that I fear for our club if we are relegated by Christmas. It is on the cards . We could just fall away. It's happened to far bigger clubs than ours in the past. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday. So, in my opinion , enough is enough. The Board must meet tomorrow and make a decision to get rid and appoint somwone with experience who might just save us.i

I think we are now in the depths of despair to see what is happening with our football club underthis Manager and his " strategy " What happened here this afternoon, you could have repeated probably 20 times this season and last. The endless possesion, the number of passes and the utterly complete ineffetiveness of this utter dross to even be competetive, let alone to actually win a match. The numbers speak for themselves don't they ! 70 % possesion, hundreds of passes and not one single shot on goal. And all against a side that havent won and had more goals concede than any other side. Southampton FC, a club that I have supported for almost 65 years is being crucified to satiate the ego of this man ! Some pundits will say how pretty we looked at times when we played our delicate triangles in our own half and maybe old Pep will comment on how he approves of the way we play the game !!! But we the fans have to suffer this. When he goes.....and surely, surely he must go now.....he will depart with a fortune and go on to manage another sucker club who will believe for a while in this disciple !!! And we will be left with an utterly broken club. I really do fear for us now. We could be relegated with a record points total.Our reputation will be destroyed and it might take years to rebuild. I utterly bloody despair of this !!!!

Derry Weren't they memorable days at the Dell. I think we were watching a very different game then to the one we watch now. George Kirby was a bloody monster and I do remember going to that match v Nottingham Forest that night. I attended with my Dad and a full Dell under floodlights was very special place to be in those days. I think Kirby was signed from Plymouth along with Dave Burnside from WBA ? and Stuart Williams that season. Williams was a very old fashioned full back ! The comeback from 3-0 down was magnificent and you are right about Grummit.....who was a good keeper....being terrified of Kirby that night. I seem to remember the equalising goal was from a corner where Kirby took the ball, the keeper and half the crossbar into the back of the net ! It was allowed in those days ! And then the magical night at White Hart Lane where we won 5-0. Attended with my Dad again and I seem to remember being sat in the Stand with him for some reason. Also my memory tells me that there were huge traffic jams to the stadium and wasnt it delayed for a while to allow all the Saints fans to get in ? And then the huge disapointment at Villa Park. It was truly awful football match but I do remember marveling at the size of the Stands at that old ground. Happy, precious memories

Good morning Esher Saint Yep, I do know what you mean there. I hope I'm not a hard hearted man and I like you had a tinge of sympathy when you saw those pics of him. He looked utterly lost didnt he. However to put it into perspective , he earns more than I could have ever dreamed of in my two careers. If he does go, he will depart with a lucrative redundancy / departure ( call it what you will ) package and as always the way with Football, he will undoubtedly find a club in months , probably in the Championship, who is willing to take him and his type of play and strategy on and pay him handsomely again. In comparison I have alot more sympathy for the steel workers at the Port Talbot Steelworks who learnt this week, that the Site is to be permanently closed and they will lose their jobs. I'm pretty certain that those blokes will be unable to ever find similar skilled hard nosed jobs again. So, back to the football. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we now have Arsenal and Leicester away in our next two games. You would like to think that the Leicester game is key in whether Martin survives. And being a true Saints fan, I believe, even after those 2 games, there's still time to survive in this Prem league if we have the resolve to change Manager and with it , tactics, selection and strategy.

I have to make an admission of guilt here on this website. I truly felt something last night that has never ever happened to me beforecer May I first put it into some context. I am 76 years of age and rarely post here but I am an avid reader and follower of posts. I have been a Saints fan since 1959. I am Pompey born but my Father left the Royal Navy in 1959 after 22 years service, coming out as a CPO. I by the way, followed him into the Navy. He obtained a job as a Pipefitter with Foster Wheelers at Fawley Refinery which was being built at the time and so the entire family moved from Portsmouth to the Waterside. I was 10 years old at the time and my Father and I were both avid Pompey fans. However we were both devotees of football and so rather reluctantly decided to go the Dell and Watch Southampton FC. And so over the years until his death in 1980 from asbestosis, we becaome committed Saints fans. Going to the FA Cup Final in 1966 , the preceding semi-final against Malcolm Allisons Crystal Palace at Stamford Bridge and a particuarly disappointing semi-final v Everton at Highbury after his death. My admission is that for the very first time in my life as a Saints supporter, I wanted this side to lose badly after the display in the first half. I openly wanted and desired that Bournemouth would score another 2/ 3/4 against us in the second half and seal this mans departure from the Club as the Manager. Is that unforgiveable ? I have read the many posts since the match detailing the tactics the strategy and the selection of the side so there really isnt any need to add to any of that. Many were written in a much more eloquent way than I could ever manage. However, I honestly believe that if we had gone down last night to a 5 / 6 nil defeat by Bournemouth .....and you have to repeat and re-read that don't you !!!!!..... Bournemouth for Chrissakes !!!!!!!! even these owners could surely not have allowed for this to continue coud they ? But he's still here. Spouting his nonsense in the post match press conference. And on we go to Arsenal on Saturday. It has to end soon.

I think the key moment in us losing this match was clearly the penalty miss by Archer. If he had scored that then United would have changed the way they play and so would have we. Can anyone shine any light on why Archer took the pen ? Do you think it was planned or.....as it sorta looked on the pitch, he just made his mind up to take it and no senior player stepped in to not allow him to. I think someone has mentioned the stats that he has played in 117 professional matches and never taken a penalty ! That just doesnt make any sense at all does it ???? Bewildering !

Can someone help me out here please and I apologise if I am being a bit thick in not comprehending Saints strategy regarding the Summer transfer business. We gave been informed by many sources that after the sensible re-signing of Flynn and Harwood-Bellis our top transfer target was Matt O'Riley from Celtic. The stats looked good and Martin was personally aware of his effectiveness as a player plus his " character " after working with him previously. In the last few weeks we have been informed that we have been unable or unwilling to meet Celtics vluation of 25 million for O'Riley and talks have eithe stalled or have ended. We, supposedly offered around 15 million and would not go higher. My maths makes that a shortfall of 10 million. And then out of the blue we learnt yesterday that Saints have signed a guy called Archer from Aston Villa for 10 million. Forgive me but doesnt 15 million plus 10 million equal 25 million ! Now I'm not saying that we should pay Celtics valuation simply because that is an abitrary figure they have put on his head. However if he really was our number 1 target and Martins choice why have we gone ahead with the Archer deal ! A player many of us here have no knowledge about. Factor in that it looks as though we will now be receiving a fee for Mara and Bella-Kotchap this doesnt make any sense to me at all. Can someone please explain to this frazzled old 76 year old brain of mine ! Anyhows, onwards and upwards and looking forward to the new season and Saints at Newcastle this afternoon

A gentleman can always change his wife, but never his football club.

Just spotted a post on FB that reads....." A mate of mine bought a ticket for Sundays final many months ago. The cost plus flight was £365. He has now just realised that Sunday is the date of his wedding, so he was wondering if anyone wants to take his place. He added that she's 5ft 5 and quite attractive "