Francis1947

May I make a last post on this thread with apologies to Moderators and anyone who feels this is too self indulgent and it has no place on a football website or its just plain boring ! To answer Alec and WhiteyGrandad on 2 separate messages, yes the Logistics involved in sending almost 40 warships of all shapes and sizes to the South Atlantic in a matter of days was truly impressive and not enough is written about that side of the operation. Abd to think that the RN task force was made up from shops from 4 different bases. A number of ships came out of Plymouth headed by the Type 22's Brilliant and Broadsword. A fleet from Pompey including both carriers and type 42's. A number of ships who were berthed in Gibraltar in April 82 including my own HMS. Glamorgan. And finally, although we on the surface fleet had no knowledge of this at the time, I believe 3 nuclear subs from Faslane including HMS Conquerer. Regarding HMS Invincible not returning home until September. I always had alot of sympathy for the crew of Invincible. However the Admiralty decided she had to stay on station there until HMS Illustrious could come out of refit to take her place. HMS Hermes had to come home almost immediately as the old girl was almost finished. One of her boilers had gone and she was almost done for. If Galtierie had known her condition and waited for just a few more short weeks, we would have lost a carrier and her air support and probably have lost the war. I came home on the Glamorgan on I think the 12th of July. We had been over 100 days at sea. No WW2 RN warship had ever done that. My missus had a pass as all the wives of the crew had, to get into the Dockyard and be pn the jetty when we docked. I hadnt seen her since January when we left on what we thought would be a quick jolly of 3 months to Gibraltar. Some abiding memories of that day was the crowd lining the Walls to welcome us home and an American warship that was in dock in Pompey. Cannot remember her name but the entire crew lined up on deck and saluted us as we passed by. We were badly beaten up. We had been hit by an Exocet fired from the island in June and we lost 14 of our shipmates. We learnt that many of the families of our lost crew had decided to come into the Dockyard to welcome us who had made it home. A wonderful thing to do that still has me in tears now. And when our Captain, Mike Barrow, heard about that he decided to turn the Glamorgan away from the Dock so the families could not see the terrible damage the ship had taken. Apologies again if this is not of interest to anyone so please ignore or delete.

Many thanks for your kind response Sarnia. As you said, we all read the various posts here from many contributors. All of us have one thing in common being Saints fans but very few of us know much about each other as individuals. I am now 77 years of age and I do agree with you that many things have changed in this world of ours since you and I were young men ! Many things for the better and a few maybe not so much eh. I served in the Royal Navy for 22 years. From the age of 18 when I joined as a Midshipman to when I reached 42 years of age and not only has the World changed in that time but so has the RN. The days of " Splicing the Main brace " ended in 1970 when a tot of rum was issued daily to all non-commisioned ranks and females were allowed to serve on board an active warship in 1993. The rum ration in proportion to water got progessively stronger accrording to rank ! And remember, this was Pussers rum which had an alchoholic content of 75 % ! And this deployment of tbe POW illustrates how the Navy has changed. Not only is it much smaller now with just 19 service warships compared to over 60 when I joined but the Pacific ocean was never a theatre of operations for the RN. We left that vast sea to the US Navy. My deployments in the 60's, 70's and 80's were to the key theatres of ops at the time, The North Atlantic, the West Indies station, the Med including Gibraltar and the Middle East and Far East where we had a station in Singapore. My only deployment to Southern seas was to the South Atlantic in 1982 when Mrs. Thatcher made the decision to send a task force to the Falkland Islands . I served on HMS. Glamorgan, very fine warship and crew. My abiding memories of the 7 weeks we were in Falklands Sound was being very wet, very cold .....and being shit scared !

Not sure this will be allowed on this Forum but I will give it a go. If it isnt of interest to anyone ,please just ignore. I wont be offended. As a long standing Saints fan of many years I realise the sense of sheer utter disillusionment on what has happened to the Club that many of us has followed over the years. The dreadful mismanagement of Southampton Football Club over the last 4/5 years has been utterly shameful and been hard to take. Add in the greater picture that I think many people feel over what is happening to these isles of ours. The despair and malaise of so many things that seem to be collapsing now. The NHS, GP appointments, the never ending illegal Immigrant crisis, Our Chancellors infamous " Black Hole " and many many other things including the state of our roads. So, yesterday, I experienced a day of pure joy and pride. Having served in the Royal Navy for 22 years I decided to motor down to Pompey yesterday ( Yes ! I know ! ) and watch the Prince of Wales depart on a major deployment to the Southern Oceans of this world. She will be joined by warships from Canada and Norway and will take part in large scale exercises in the Sea of Japan and the Pacific with units of the Australina and US Navy. He deployment will be for 8 months and her young crew will not see Blighty again before Christmas. The POW will take on two full Air Wings of F35 B's once she is out in open water. One from the RAF and one from the newly instated Feet Air Arm. She also had a Wing of 16 Merlin and Wildcat helicoptors that were already on board when she sailed. There were thousands there to wish her well and the hope she sails in calm seas and following winds . ( forgive me....an old Navy expression ) Many of the folks there were famiies of the crew and it was truly emotional. Wives, husbands,parents, kids....all waving farewell. And I believe from having a quick chat with some of the Families that over 80 % of her young crew have never been deployed before Many many Union Jacks and Crosses of St.George and Saltires and Flags of St.David and not a Trans Flag, a Unite Union Flag or a Hamas or Palestina flag in site ! Just pure joy and may I say pride and just a little bit of Patriotism on show for just a wee while. Dont think this should be on a Football website but I just felt like writing this as I enjoyed the day being a very old Sailor and harking back to my deployments from Portsmouth Navy Base. Please ignore if uninteresting.

Could someone educate me on what exactly Lalanna brings to the side now. I accept that when he was with is a few years ago he was a clever player who could manipulate an opening. But not now ! He is an aged guy now who cannot survive in the Prem. His only attribute it seems to me is to pointlessly pitch to the ref and get booked. Is that what we signed him for ! And I really don't buy into the younger players taking on board his wisdom and experience,either in a match or in training. Someone earlier listed the utterly pointless signings this lot have made in the last 18 months. Stewart, Cornet Brereton Diaz Archer etc. Can we add Lallana to that list ?

A P.S. on my last post. I meant to post this on the West Ham game thread ! Apologies. My excuse is too many g and t's already and it's only 11 am on Christmas Day morning !

First of all and most importantly....a very Happy Christmas Day to all fellow Saints fans on this website. May you all have a great day surrounded by family and friends and be happy and content. Also it's a bit of an opportunity to eat alot and drink a bit ! I think we all feel this just might be the start of a new era under a new Manager. Is there a chance of a Great Escape The odds arae against us....but maybe just maybe eh !!!! Just a thought. Many on here have seen a lot more of Bella-Kotchap than me and are of the opinion that he really is our best central defender . I havent enough knowledge or opinion to make a judgement on his past behaviour and the reasons he's been unselectable. Wouldnt that be left field if this guy threw him into the team for tomorrow. A bit far fetched I know and he probably hasnt seen enough of him or any other player on the training pitch....but ? Any thoughts ?

Reading all the posts on this thread ,I think there are two schools of thought in our strategy on who to replace Martin with. The first is that we are already buggered so the search is on for the best bloke to manage us in the Championship next year with the aim of trying to get us ap again I think the second is that we have a minuscule chance of still acquiring enough points to survive. Far fetched I know and it would have to break all records but I for one still have a little hope that it can be done. Look I'm a Saints fan so forever the optimistic. So if we still accept that it's not completely over we need to appoint a man who knows how to eke out a draw or two and heaven forbid maybe even a win. Now if the new man can do this over say the next five games and the three or four sides above us are still struggling to acquire points we could start to put pressure on. I do realise I'm grabbing at straws and we could and should have done this week's ago. So for me, out of the possible available managers available it could be Moyes. He has experience of the Prem and has the nouse and savvyness of getting alot out of a mediocre set of players. I wouldn't want it to be a long term appointment. Maybe just a one season one with a big bonus at the end if he succeeds. Surely that would be worth it financially to our club. We could then talk of ' projects ' and ' long term plans and goals ' later.

Not sure I need to add to the many excellent posts from fellow fans who love our club and have been in utter despair at the stuff we have seen since the start of the season. But this is my two pennies worth all the same ! The general consensus I think is that Martin was totally out of his depth regarding strategy,tactics and team selection. A marvellous example of number 3 was the decision to include Sulemana in the team on Sunday and then to withdraw him after 15 minutes. Add in what to me was his arrogance and his ego and the thought of many of us was the way he continually set us up to play was more to do with his future career prospects and reputation andwith little thought about the future of our club once he buggered off. Two questions obviously remain now. Who next and what if we really can get out of this mire. My thoughts on the first one is that I haven't alot of confidence in who this lot get in now. There are still 66 points to play for. An old boy can but dream eh ! And on the second point. I'm a Saints fan of over 65 years. Been through thick and thin. Mostly thin I think. But if we could make the right short term appointment..and my preference is Moyes. And his pragmatism and nouse could somehow manage let's say a win and a draw in his first 5 matches and Ipswich and Wolves and Leicester haven't fully got away, we have a tiny miniscule chance. I do want our club to stay in the Prem. It's the place to be despite all it's inconsistenies in how the bigger clubs are treated and the ridiculous Sky induced kick off times. But it's still better than going down and having to endure playing the Blue Few again next year.

Not sure I need to add to the many excellent posts from fellow fans who love our club and have been in utter despair at the stuff we have seen since the start of the season. But this is my two pennies worth all the same ! The general consensus I think is that Martin was totally out of his depth regarding strategy,tactics and team selection. A marvellous example of number 3 was the decision to include Sulemana in the team on Sunday and then to withdraw him after 15 minutes. Add in what to me was his arrogance and his ego and the thought of many of us was the way he continually set us up to play was more to do with his future career prospects and reputation andwith little thought about the future of our club once he buggered off. Two questions obviously remain now. Who next and what if we really can get out of this mire. My thoughts on the first one is that I haven't alot of confidence in who this lot get in now. There are still 66 points to play for. An old boy can but dream eh ! And on the second point. I'm a Saints fan of over 65 years. Been through thick and thin. Mostly thin I think. But if we could make the right short term appointment..and my preference is Moyes. And his pragmatism and nouse could somehow manage let's say a win and a draw in his first 5 matches and Ipswich and Wolves and Leicester haven't fully got away, we have a tiny miniscule chance. I do want our club to stay in the Prem. It's the place to be despite all it's inconsistenies in how the bigger clubs are treated and the ridiculous Sky induced kick off times. But it's still better than going down and having to endure playing the Blue Few again next year.

Toussaint Good point you made. It's not just football is it but this incessant instruction from on high that is just sucking the joy out of life in general. I'm in moaning old git now but my paricular bugbear is being told by some young weather person on TV ( Thomas Schaffernacker is my particular bette noire ! ) to not just give us the bloody weather but then tell us to wrap up warm, wear a scarf or take an umbrella !!!! I am 77 years of age and managed to just about survive all weathers up to now without the advice of young Thomas. In my 22 years in the Royal Navy I cannot remember Thomas or any of his ilk being around to help me weather the storms of the North Atlantic or particuarly so, the impressive seas of the South Atlantic in 1982 ! There....I feel better now !

I would like to read other peoples thoughts on the almost second by second coaching that Martin does from the touchline. It's a thing I think that came into the game about 20 years ago and to be fair to Martin he isn't the worst in the Prem. I think he's mid table which is where we would all like the club to be at the moment. When I attend St.Marys I often take a look at his antics on the touchline. On the telly you are not shown it as much but in a match he is almost constantly shouting, cajoling and instructing the players. Even down to where they stand at a throw in or a corner. It is almost non stop. What does this achieve and is it something to encourage ? Any thoughts ? You would like to think that the detail of how an opposing team is going to play would have been done at Stapleford in mid-week and you wouldnt require this almost forensic wave of second by second instructions . I personally think that it's part of the " profile " of a manager now. They are the stars ! They like to be seen and heard and to know that they have complete power over the team and the players. It's the modern way ! Now in other posts I have said that my other winter sport Iove is Rugby Union. It is a sport that I have liked and admired for more than 60 years. I have been a Northampton Rugby Club member for more than 20 years and the contrast in the match day role and behaviour of the Manager and the coaching staff coudnt be more different. I attend maybe 4-6 home matches at Franklin Gardens a season. My missus and I sit in the same seats at every match. They are in the back row of the stand where Phil Dowson, the Director of Rugby, Lee Radford the Defence Coach and Sam Vesty the Attack coach sit. I'm fortunate enough to be 8 seats away. And I often glance at them when a match is underway. Each has a computer screen in front of them and you can see they quietly discuss how the match is going between. They occasionally contact some of the more junior coaching staff who are on the Northampton Bench. However this is rarely to discuss or change strategy with the match underway and mostly to do with substitutions whne there's an injury. There are no minute instructions, no shouting, no caterwalling and waving of arms. The work has been done on the training pitch the week before, strategy and tactics are agreed and the coaching team have faith in theie players to carry them out to the best of their ability. Of course it doesnt always work but the difference in the two sports is staggering. And this bahaviour is widespread throught the game, both in club and international rugby. Not too many prima donnas in Rugby. And this is a game that has hundreds of more nuances and techicalities than football and also a game I might say that is refereed to a much higher standard to the dross we ofen see at St.Marys. One funny story to end with. A few weeks ago I attended match at Northampton and we were attacking 5 yards from the try line. I think it was a back rower, Tom Pearson who made a mistake and the chance to score was lost. There's a big screen at Franklin Gardens and just as the ball was dropped the camera switched to the coaching team. And Sam Vesty was effin and jeffin with the best of them. The camera switched away but Vesty knew he had been caught out and the whole ground was laughing. the Camera switched back to Vesty who stood up and turned to each quarter of the ground and apologised.It was a good moment. So there is passion and intensity in the sport but its not on show so deliberately as football now So, I would just like to know other Saints fans opinions on Martins behaviour o the touchline.....and does it help and achieve anything at all ?

And to continue this theme " We know he's fucking useless Cos when we try to attack We sometimes get to the halfway line And then we always pass it back "

I think that's a good post of yours Turkish and sums up perfectly the message that Martin is now putting out there to cover his arse. The arrogance and ego is shining through now. None of this is the great Gurus fault. It's the players, the fans but not his. I do hope the rumours are true that this charlatan is going today but I'm not confident it's based on any real itk

Fabrice Not sure I was too clear with my desciption of how the Ref / TMO intercation works this season in the Rugby Premiership. My point is that when a contentious incident occurs at Northampton be it a scoring of a try or foul play of any kind, we the crowd can hear exactly the conversation between the officials live and in real time. We dont have to wait for the Rugby Premier League to release an audio of that conversation after the match, either to supporters or broadcaster or journalists. So, we the supporters can hear and understand how and why a decision is made then and there. It is illuminating and I have to say mostly impressive. Protocols, procedures etc are followed to the letter. In my opinion, the standard of rugby refeering is far far higher than the stuff we have to endure following Saints. There are now a fair number of ex players who have pursued a career as a referee in rugby union. Something I think almost unheard of in football. And this season, we have enjoyed a couple of matches being refereed by females. And very good they were too ! So I enjoy both sports and just by coincedence the two teams I follow are both " Saints "

My other game that I follow is Rugby Union. As well as going to see some Saints matches at St.Marys I am also a Northampton Rugby club member. I make the drive up to Northampton to see their home matches about 4 maybe 5 times a season Now in any Rugby union match if you purchase a set of headphones, you can listen to the interaction between referee and the TMO. Before this season ,you could only listen in on the refs microphone so you could listen in to their on field conversations with the players and only his feed to the TMO. I have to say that the quality of decision making between the officials..including the linesmen...and the strict protocols they follow and go through to award a try or give a yellow or red card is extremely impressive. And that is in a game that is a much more technical one with many more rules than the round ball game. I wonder why the Football authorities are so reluctant to hear the process between ref and VAR. You can only surmise that we wouldn't be too impressed !