Giordano

Top comment. JWP = Future Saints + England Captain.

Read Money ball. very relevant aspect concerning the likelihood of college players picked in the draft making it versus high school stars. Basically its incredibly hit and miss for high school players but you get a much more reliable chance of a great player if they are good at 16/17/18. It sounds obvious i know but recruiting more talented 16/17/18 years olds and less 10 years olds is the way forward to focus on to get value players it suggests.

These guys from Italy had quite a good negotiating strategy he Roman Military Julius Caesar Roman Military The Roman military was the most successful and powerful in history, dominating the Western world for over a thousand years. The size, strength and organization of their infantry force wouldn’t be equaled again for another thousand years. http://www.ancientmilitary.com/images/roman-empire.gif

Financial brinkmanship aside, De Laurentis cannot have a bad 1-1 home draw against Palermo and selling a youngish full Italian International forward in consecutive PR output. Makes him look clueless. His team cannot score more than 1 against a poor team and he is selling an international forward, who is Italian no less? If Napoli had won 3-0 MG would be here already. That's my take on it, his emotional reaction to the result has prejudiced the sale. I don't know how long he takes to cool down but i don't think he has got long. For me this is more off than on now as SFC will not be mucked about with.

In response to the OP: Business decision. Good for everyone.

Very Good point. I too thought it VERY odd that we did not make a MEGA song and dance about the two lads especially our skipper winning the Euro's. I can't think why there wasn't much much more made of it given we are hardly replete with trophy winning success stories and as a club our marketing/brand/PR machine don't waste an opportunity to big up anything SFC related... apart from the obvious deduction that there was already an issue brewing between Jose and SFC that preceded Puel arriving and that this cast a shadow over his return to (late) preseason. Connected to his new agent is another inference we can reasonably make given the absence of "funniness" associated with Jose whilst he was with a different agent So THIS cannot originally be Claude's fault.

Whatever the real reasons for Jose leaving (if he does leave) head up backside, greed for ££, bored, fall out with the management - whats not been mentioned is that a three year deal for him at say £80,000pw does not cost £80,000 times by 156 weeks = £12,480,00.00. First of all get your mind around that. £12.5million pounds for three years work. No, in fact what a three year deal at that figure actually costs Southampton is £12,480,000 PLUS the £9,000,000.00 we could get by selling him today. In other words £21,480.000.00. For a good player that's true with no resale value, a player in the latter stages of his career, a player who is being a bit funny these days perhaps thinks he deserves thats and more and maybe the management/owners don't agree. Maybe the management/owners think/feel we have another VVD lined up who will cost £10-£15M and be younger and has a resale value. In that light its not personal its just business. Far from having to push to get out maybe SFC are very happy to collect a previously unexpected (up until the euro's) decent transfer fee for him. Its got an echo of SRL in it without the funniness.

JWP has been at Southampton Academy then full club since he was 8 years old playing in every age category. About 14 years! If there is one player at the club in the first team that's Saints through and through and represents the best of the Southampton Way its him. James Ward Prowse. Decent bloke, very very good footballer and excellent role model to kids considering playing for Saints. I honestly don't know whats has possessed you keyboard warriors to have a hate-in on him ~ are you really so keen to suggest being born in Portsmouth to Portsmouth fans as meaning he is a skate for life? Jeez i expect you hate Bobby Stokes too....Do you know how many Saints fans live and work in the PO postcode? That have blue relatives partners even sons or daughters? Are they all skates too? You probably don't ( i do not know but its not zero put it that way as my saints supporting girlfriend lives in Gosport and there's plenty Saints fans there i can assure you, though we keep a different profile at times) but it's irrelevant anyway as it sounds better on a cyber lynch mob to dismiss JWP as being s far away from being a saint as is possible due to the accident of birth in a one-liner. I've followed Saints 53 years of my life home and away and have experienced the delights of fratton park and saints pfc games complete with concrete ticker tape parades and friendly meetings to discuss crochet so am under no illusions about the blind hatred that does exist on both sides. But turning on JWP with this skate trash talk is poor fare. Having said that, and here's the one you will like, there's a awful lot of low-lifes using support for Southampton FC as an excuse to avoid the anger management classes they really ought to be going on and especially when he and we have not scored or won a while the anger builds up and its nice to metaphorically kick the **** out of some bloke cos hes born in portsmouth even if the truth is hes done more for Southampton, the team the city and England than many here will ever do. And still does. Give yourselves a break from being nasty. Lifes not that bad.

Well it seems I've accidentally dropped into a JWP hate -fest. To everyone saying he's a bad player, a slow player, a weak player, an ineffective player I say you don't captain your country at under21's to a Toulon trophy if you are that bad.Saints tactics do not play to his strengths. He plays a very specific expert role for England and it suits his game and has been very successful in it and so has England indeed such that he is virtually first name on the sheet. He plays as quarterback just ahead of an athletic backline and is there to keep the ball rotating be available for a simple pass from the defenders and then give it to the pacey skillful powerful young England forwards to bosh it into the net. He takes every corner and free kick and penalties. Crap players do not do that. A manager with less pressure twenty thirty years ago might make the team play around this kind of home grown talent rather than make him play alternate games fitting into a system with a load of imports. Mark my words: JWP will be a full England International. If he stays at Saints which i sincerely hope he will captain Southampton and be club captain for a long long time and one day he will be our new Manager - in 2030 to be precise. And he IS one of our own, Saints through and through and you ought to be goddamn proud we have a genuine bloke and player like that at our club in this day and age of disloyal uncommitted fake cheating over hyped lazy mercenaries.

Saints outed as having bid $14M for Gabbiadini. Napoli value him at $18-20. Some others only want him on loan. http://www.gazzamercato.it/juventus/napoli-piu-premier-che-bundesliga-per-gabbiadini-southampton/?intcmp=gabbiadini-premier&refresh_ce-cp

Agents on corriera says he cannot tell you who Gabbiadini is going to- "even under torture" but it will be bundesliga or epl. He fits Saints needs and Saints total news blackout modus operandii. And if hes sub $20m i would say its a fair price for a versatile player with an appreciated resale value in 2/3 years when hes 27/28 exactly like Saints usually love to do... http://www.corrieredellosport.it/news/calcio/calcio-mercato/2017/01/09-19745241/pagliari_gabbiadini_via_la_decisione_e_presa_/

The practices MLT described date back to at least the mid 1970's. I know because i was one of them. They were not limited to SFC signed up young players or "good" players. Many children invited to residential soccer camps under the saints umbrella suffered those practices at that time, football team mate friends who were there with me experiencing the same thing. The numbers of kids interfered with is huge. There were at least two coaches/staff involved. Southampton FC of today is an extremely laudable organization and parents should have no concerns about child welfare when in Saints care. In the middle/late seventies onwards I know that was not the case.

I would say that almost certainly it played a part. Which then further reinforces the not often spoken about feeling but relatively common knowledge in city circles that we've been up for sale for quite a while.

Duncan, I was designated penalty taker in most of my teams during my (now distant) playing days. If we got awarded a penalty and some other teammate unilaterally decided he was taking it I would NOT walk back to the edge of penalty area totally resigned to that without at the very least getting an explanation or new instruction from skipper/manager. But in that situations you have to bear in mind a striker like Austin who knows there's a penalty awarded is like a shark that's sensed blood in the water...you gear up to kill not to go to sleep.......if you not scored for a while been a bit injured a while that need to score is like an obsession overriding normal thinking processes sometimes...and thats what think happened...he gopt the blood lust... So- yes in that situation last night, to you, Tadic might seem disgracefully petulant and appearing NOT to be a team player by arguing over it - but NO designated penalty taker should ever be afraid to step up ~ and that's what Tadic did. If Tadic goes away without stepping up he's NOT the designated penalty taker nor is he an instinctive penalty taker sensing blood in the water. You can see that Austin is probably NOT the designated penalty taker and that Tadic clearly thinks he IS because of that scene. What's not been mentioned is Austin mouthing "My pen, my pen" as his explanation to Tadic's obvious bemused quizzing whilst he shields the ball. That's quite funny and revealing. It's schoolboy schoolyard rules ~ if you got the pen you can take the pen. Austin was talking back to basics football language in a key high pressure moment to his non-english first language colleague. Perhaps what was most impressive was the skipper sorting it out so directly. That's a natural leader for you. VVD saw the situation and instantly summed up that it was better to let Charlie take the pen than to pull him off it and let Dusan have it. Proved why he is a worthy captain in that one decision. IF Dusan were designated penalty taker I'd expect skipper to know that. And in that instance by pulling Tadic off the pen VVD's actions were a supreme act of authority imposition and evidence of great decision making ability under pressure which may reverberate beyond this match ~ because I think we all are aware that he is lined up as Fonte's successor as skipper. VVD got it right because Charlie scored, but I think if I was VVD I would be having a chat with them two in private after the match, with advice from Jose and Puel. VVD sensed Austins need to score was more important that Dusan's. He was probably right as long as Dusan did not sulk, which would have taken a massive effort of will not to as the call obviously hurts his pride and hes very much a passion player. Work to do to sort that out! Luckily but not unexpectedly from a top International player on mega wages Dusan's professionalism was evident even if it wasn't his best game. ION : I liked Austin's guts, his blood lust to score, the ballsiness of the situation and I liked the composure and execution of that penalty in that extra pressure backdrop and the desperate to score indicators it emitted. He proved himself in true gladiatorial spirit in the arena. That has lit the touchpaper for his goalscoring season i believe because if it has'nt nothing will (as long as we play full backs who will cross the ball often like Martina who out-crossed Targett 5 to 1 - Lukaku must be wishing he had Martina crossing for him ....! ) Which brings us onto that subject of style of play - If we play wingers who want to dribble around 3 players every time Charlie is not going to score much. If you give him the ball in the penalty area often though he will score. I like tricky wingers and players who are technically gifted but i hope Puel took note that our two/three most effective players were Austin, Martina and Romeu, and these are three of our most direct style of players- more vertical than horizontal...! Anyhow, give Tadic a break he was not wrong but it should end up well!

We already had that problem in previous years and as you + Derry both suggest, we previously had a target man as an "out" ball if it all got a bit too hairy with the more advanced high pressing teams. This time around we do not have that "out" because Austin does not have the height or holding/playmaking ability of Pelle being more (imo) of a finisher than anything else. A consequence is that against some teams we will look a little bit like we are passing for passing's sake initially ~ until our guys get up to confidence with it ~ and that can seem disappointing especially against so called weaker teams like Watford and Sunderland. Puel does want us to integrate more vertical/aggressive passes and fewer lateral/passive passes but its one step at a time. We do very much look like we are learning on the job and i suppose we are impatient for the guys to "get it" quickly and start showing the reason its a good formation to have up your sleeve. It will take time. If we keep on drawing at home losing away then that time will start to run out though but we are a long way off that yet. Xmas time is a fair test of the system not a few early games. We know the players are good enough to be top half but can they do it with a new style of play that makes us harder to play against in theory and is easier on the legs now we are in multiple games per week mode most of the season? Lets see. The "legs" argument in theory should start to show benefit after winter for example. I'm open to the new playing system, indeed id say its obligatory for us to have several ways of playing not just one which can be countered...and it needs to be learned then mastered and that takes time but, like some, i respect the boss but admit I'd prefer a bit more charisma, less generic meaningless non-interviews to the point of being a waste of time watching them and even a smile now and again from him. I appreciate that's (probably) part of the grand plan and Puel's personality suits it to a tee - to take away from the cult of manager and focus on the club ~ but all the same Look at the energy Conte or a Klopp brings to his teams for instance and the instant rapport that they have with fans ~ that's the added value those managers bring and i guess its also in part what gives them the big salaries...but it MUST lift the club and the players if the boss gets a bit enthusiastic occasionally rather than appear distant, french-sophisticated and rather bored of it all...

He's got too many platitudinous replies and its going to be a question of checking the nuances of what he says it seems at these events.. Incidentally his translator / assistant is not all that good i'm sorry to say - don't like criticizing a mans work and potential livelihood but he clearly missed out aspects of the questions put to Puel in his English to French interpretations for him which then in turn did Puel no favours in assisting giving a meaningful accurate or intelligent sounding answer either, and actually make him look rather bad by directing him to not answer the sense of the question put. Hope that's not a sign of things to come because its going to be darn frustrating and id rather he answer from the heart in french than via a poor translator in very generic english terms which are largely meaningless. French to English is not all that hard so I'm very surprised. Example being when asked if the players+ squad had made a welcome for euro winners Soares and Jose the translator paraphrased it poorly in a generalized way to sound like what was the clubs response to them winning euros - NOT the question asked - clearly the obviously saints friendly questioner was hoping to get a nice "great reaction from the lads to cedric and jose when they arrived back and its a sign of great team spirit/ team bonding" type of answer so the question was basically a nice dolly ball to be hit away for 4 runs nicely - except it was badly translated so Puel missed that altogether and his low energy generic response about how good it was to have two winners come back came across as lame and "meh" about it. My verdict impression of the conference im afraid was a 4/10. He must do better than that - not inspirational at all frankly, more sleep inducing than exciting to have him as our leader.

Its probably too long for this forum but if you have the patience and don't mind a bit of history and a few long words I recommend people read consortium11 at the Guardian under our season review. Rare you get such an intellectually analytical yet readable analysis of our club that is actually a pleasure to read and hard to find issue with. And from a Saints fan. :-)

sorry meant to say right back for valerie!

I had never seen our french left back Valerie(sp?) before and i must say i was pleasantly surprised, and impressed. He had composure on the ball and a little bit of the Paul Pogba swagger about him if i dare say! Made Targett look technically clumsy by contrast even though he made himself very busy on the left wing at times (but over enthusiastically mistimed a challenge too at one point which let in the forward). We seem to know how to make a left back alright! Fingers crossed he could be an absolute star! I thought that Redmond looked busy and better than average skilled with ball at feet and seemed to have been told to run with the ball a little bit - and he did, and his pace, though not super-speedy, was certainly making average balls passed into him into good balls. Reminded me of when we had danny wallace and a big boot out of defence wide was invariably a great ball to Danny as he would always get there first! I remember being impressed by how well griezeman ran the ball out of midfield and attacked the back 3/4 defenders in the turnover phase of play some matches at the euros and Redmond seemed to be attempting similar so that augurs well if he is given license to do that as MF and defenders hate guys running at them especially if we play a super stubborn defence but with fast paced breakout options away from home at some of the bigger clubs. Jrod attempted a few kick the ball past the defender and go through type moves which did'nt come off but it does show he has the confidence in his standing start pace, even if there was not any real sight of it on show so i was pleased he tried anyhow. At least he was occasionally trying to take his man on rather than safely pass the ball backwards every time. Austin just needs service in the right area was what i saw in his half. JWP ran around like an excited puppy chasing every ball and i love him but he does need to use a little bit of judgement as he will get booked loads this year otherwise by clumsy challenges. He is a terrier though and a saints lad so for me he is pardoned everything and i like him on the pitch as he always gives 100% value, but not as advanced as he plays for us- rather like he plays for Eng under 21's captain as the deeper lying ball re-circulator/playmaker, a position which eh will need battle with JC over i suspect this year.. Romeu was very good imo- rather bullying in CM and with excellent anticipation and timing (and better range of passing !) in fact, and some cynicism too at other times (like jwp has got tbf) exactly as you want in Bigvics absence. Our new lad PEh was happy to play a support role in a cdm-type position and looked technically skilled, composed and played his way into the game well enough with a couple of clever passes. Virgil was a bit off color ( he looked bored actually) but he is clearly a class player as he showed with a few touches, when he could be bothered. Martina showed why he is a decent hard working and reliable if relatively predictable squad player who is bigger physically but not as good attacking as Cedric. Gazza did not drop the ball, colelcetd some crosses used a few kicks well and the young lad from Shrewsbury in the 2nd half goals showed competency too.

To paraphrase and get the gist if not the actual words from a movie ( Saturday Night Fever i think the movie and the quote was Jt's dad decrying his son's small wage rise saying it was worth less than the pay rise itself something like 3 bits is not worth 2 bits nowadays or something like that) : Two years is not worth one years nowadays. By the time you are into month 23 to go you are wondering about the future, wondering about what you are going to do as you enter the last 12 months of your contract in which you are able to become a free agent, wondering whats the best way to secure your job your salary your future for you and family, wondering wondering wondering...when you are supposed to be concentrating on being the team captain, on stopping the CF from scoring, on keeping clean sheets, on developing your newbie payers into the southampton family.... IF Jose Fonte has only got two years left then because of what i've said above, and lets be honest also because of the great honor he has brought our club being team captain and European Champion (how much more credibility does our team have now to potential recruits because of that?)he should be given a one year extension minimum with a raise immediately.

There used to be some scandal surrounding the calling up of young South American (often argentinian and brazilian)players to national squads who were not all that good but whose promotion to national squad immediately inflated transfer value / fee to the european market. The owners manager and others apparently "benefited" together over this arrangement. The reason i mention it is that in a sense Saints can do the same thing nowadays because of Bale, Walcott, Lallana, Shaw, etc. Making the Saints first team squad as an 18 year old means you must be a good player just like making the brazil squad. But even if you are only average compared to your illustrious predecessors, (Calum Chambers is the most obvious example i can think of) you still benefit from the halo effect. Like the offspring of a thoroughbred you are very likely- but not guaranteed, to be a good player. If Saints unearth a Bale every 10 years they can sell 9 Calum Chambers' at inflated prices in-between. But if they don't put these guys in the squad there is no-one to have the halo effect on and no potential transfers for saints down the line. Cynical i know. Practical yes.

My opinion: If Graziano goes to China his international career will probably be over. It was a minor miracle he got in the Italian squad playing for Saints here given historically so few overseas players ever make the first team for Italy ~ but China would be a continent too far i feel. But he would be made up financially for him and family for the rest of his life if he does go.Pragmatically for him its probably the right thing IF its really those big numbers mentioned and a 3 year deal. IF he stays at Saints OR moves to Chelsea he will still be in the Italian WC squad for Russia, probably as a starter but that's not 100% certain under the new Italian manager nor the new Saints Manager. I guess some reassurances from Claude will be required to that end. If Claude says Graziano is a probable starter in the majority of matches when fit rather than hes a probable impact player off the bench the majority of the time, well that may be material to what happens now and influence a decision more than anything else....i'm certain with Graziano it will be playing time and honour first (and how he feels within the group) then the money, but money is still very important! Ditto if he is to be the main man or an impact (put the big man up top and lob the ball to him) player at the other clubs mentioned. I think he'd regard the latter as demeaning no matter what the pay. He will be very well off financially staying or extending (my personal preference is an extension of a year at least) at Saints where he is well loved by fans ~ and even better off financially going to Chelsea though who knows what there fans will think of him and they have an age and contract policy that's relatively inflexible.Drogba was an exception rather than the rule. If he goes to some other team (like Everton) there is even more uncertainty and im personally not convinced he would be so massively better paid at Everton or feel the love or feel honourable for example as to compensate for that uncertainty. Lastly there is the prospect of playing in Europa League this season which neither Chelsea, Shanghai, Everton or Inter or Milan can provide. He can stay easily if Claude says he loves him and he gets a nice pay rise plus a year or two. If not he can also leave quite easily in the absence of those things. Given that, if Saints do NOT offer him an extension they are as good as saying he is for sale and is not loved anymore. My interpretation is that the ball is in saints court. I don't know enough about Charlie Austin to comment upon if hes a direct replacement but i do think that thre will be certain games in which a player like Graziano will be very useful/instrumental in breaking down defences as he has shown he can be very effective indeed at the highest level if used correctly. It would be a shame to loee him at his peak, but i guess that's when his value is the highest too and Les +co have the books to balance...

Pelle is and has always been a great asset for Saints. I don't understand his critics at all. Its how you use him and how you pace him that counts ~ and who you use him against. Quite clearly he needs resting as he cannot do three matches in a week at full gas but that's why we have Charlie Austin in particular. At his best, when used correctly, he is world class unplayable - as Real Madrid and Barcelona centre backs Ramos and Pique found out last night. His combination play with the skilful fleet footed Eder was VERY encouraging for any Saints fan to see. For Eder substitute Shane Long Or Jay Rod or Nathan Redmond or Tadic and you can see how that could be an effective pairing next season, IF we want or need to play that way. It may well suit us to play more mobile forwards in some matches though - and we can also play that way as the latter part of last season showed - and very effectively too. Mane going reduces that so i hope Redmond or a resurgent Jay rod or a n other can fit in that gap playing with Shane up top. This augurs well for the new manager as we have got the personnel in the squad to show this flexibility in how we set up our offensive line up. Some clubs are one dimensional but at Saints we have got multiple ways to set up our attack ~ for as long as we keep Pelle with us. Lose Pelle and we do not have a like for like replacement with his qualities. So, I would be very sorry to see Pelle leave if it meant we reduced our attacking flexibility. Put it this way - France have Giroud, Germany have Gomez, Belgium have Lukaku and Italy have Pelle - what's the common denominator that sets them apart from Wales, Poland, Portugal, Iceland (!) - that these are probably the four best teams left in the tournament and all, despite being very much "footballing" teams, have a big front guy n the squad who usually starts and who has strong technical skills to bring his (more?) skillful more mobile colleagues into play in dangerous areas.

If I am right then you are right. Our views must already be of some consequence where it counts if the Board are half as good as what their CV's say. Let me be a bit crass and talk in lucre terms. The EPL is a mega bucks biz. ALL the data we generate on this forum each day is extremely and directly valuable to help get access to those mega bucks and all the spin off bucks and all the spin off glory (still important) and name recognition (VERY important) around the world. Data such as our representative saints fans sentiment towards all these Manager names for example, seeing as that's what this thread is about, CAN be monetized by people with inspired commercial know how. You can work out for yourself im sure some of the ways. For a high end aspirant club like Saints it is inconceivable that such advanced techniques and business intelligence sources/services are not already a tool in our toolbox, (is that a Nige saying?) especially with Ralph Krueger at the helm. The difference between upwardly mobile growth football clubs, like Saints, and going backwards clubs (not mentioning any names) is understanding this, and doing something professional about it. If it is not, and we are playing amateur hour stuff in a very uninspired low energy low inspiration not world class kind of way - well even that can provide safe business navigation for the Saints biz, though it fails to hit a standard I know Ralph wants. Id be surprised if that was it. IF anyone with half a clue looks at these new manager posts they may find beneficial assistance. Maybe they should just invite the forum owner to the Boardroom one Saturday afternoon after the match for a chat, if that's not already happened ;-).