Dusic

Yeah, its not really that difficult to grasp, is it? To stay up we have to finish above both teams who finished above us and beat us in 4/4 games last season (one we have finished behind for st least 4 seasons) plus at least one team that has played in this league and stayed up for (at least) the last two seasons so have had now 5 windows of splashing PL cash. Last season all of the teams who came up went straight back down. Clearly from the above, and the fact we don't spend lots of money by PL standards, it is going to be very difficult to stay up this season, regardless of who the manager is. We certainly should not be accepting of relegation at this stage of the season, but surely an element of realism is needed? We were an unfortunate deflection from being out of the bottom 3 after 5 games and put in easily our best performance so far - not the time to be speed dialling someone like David Moyes who clearly wouldn't have the tools to do what those in favour of him would want. All IMHO of course, Morph

Absolutely, if you look at it purely from an outcome perspective. But when you consider some of the massive chances we haven't taken then I think its mental we only have two goals - and hopefully over the next 5 game spell a few more of the massive chances get taken and then it doesn't look so bad. If we hadn't created those chances to miss then it would be a greater cause of concern...and ultimately the manager doesn't miss them and a new manager wouldn't score them!

Genuine answer to what I think is a very difficult question: - You have to give him a little more time because everyone is adjusting to a new level, we are settling in a lot of new players and there has been sign of improvement (Saturday we were a deflection away from a deserved win). - I think sometime in November would be the best to judge - would have had more games against teams who will be bottom third, enough time to for all signings to have adjusted and for the team to do what RM has said - get better as time passes. - There are also significant factors that we don't really know enough on from the outside. For example: > Without Wilcox how invested in the possession based 'game model' are the decision makers? > Whats the atmosphere like at Staplewood? Has to be said from the outside it seems a united group that are bought in to what the manager is doing - that is a key point. > Who could they get, and do they think by making a change it would actually make a positive difference? No guarentee of that at all. So clearly not as simple as many make out and as for accepting relegation or not, I personally accept that we are still more likely to be repegated than not, because there is the factor of other teams as well - in this case we have one of the weakest 3 squads so we are trying to upset the odds. The question is whether holding our nerve and sticking gives us a better chance over a long season to get 35pts?

Seems bigger than many on here expected which is suprising because we were only out of it for a season and were abject in our last two PL seasons. Has always been extremely obvious that it will be very difficult to stay up this season given the lack of Luton, Sheff Utd level sides and the money spent overall in the league. Nothing has changed. We were a deflection away from being out of the bottom 3 after 5 games and yet there seems so much agitation to change as if people expected to be comfortably mid table. Pretty much any side who has 3 managers in a season goes down as an utter shambles. If we get rid of Martin now I think that is far more likely than the scenario whereby we suddenly improve hugely and have a comfortable season.

Tactics creates two clear chances that people are moaning he didn't take. Looked pretty clear they want to slip through balls into him...and it worked (see first sentence).

Clinical finishes vs Cardiff and looked pretty strong for his 2nd chance on Saturday where he muscled in between two defenders to get the shot away. IMO he looks like someone who has good PL attributes and with Fernandes, Dibling and Lallana hopefully some players who can find him. Reality - like for all the clubs near the bottom - is you can't buy players with proven records in top leagues because they already play for top sides (or are like Ings are probably a bit past it).

He got enough joy to have two very good chances, partly of his own making.

Can I just double check that you mean that you think Ipswich had 15 to 20 good chances to score today?

I was at the game and thought he was good. Looks like he has the pace and movement in behind to get chances in behind and pretty unlucky not to score one of them. Felt it was a strange sub to take him off and we didn't benefit from it. Certainly our best option up front.

Just had a read of my old FA level 1 manual and think tomorrow would be a great time to deploy James Bree as a front sweeper, dealing with all attacking threat across the entire width of the field. ------------Ramsdale------------- YS -----THB------Janny----KWP <Breeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezy> ----------FD--------AL----------- --------------MF---------------- ----------TD--------CA-----------

Ok.

Was a very confident penalty too. Hopefully he can stay fit and then we at least have a chance to see what kind of level he is at. Zero pressure really because he is barely proven at Championship level but hopefully can be an asset moving forwards either on the pitch or financially.

Its a big question. Also need to consider the partnership - Cornet as a natural left footer could be a good pairing with KWP once he has gained fitness. Until then I just don't think BBD and KWP works as both want to come inside. Fraser is also a bit more direct and will run on the outside so I think if we play KWP at LB it has to be either Fraser or Cornet ahead of him. If the intention has always been to play BBD on the left then surely there were better options to sign who are more suited to our way of playing?!

Clesrly we were the better, more composed team although Everton arguably had more clear cut chances. We are just lacking the final ball often, but some promising signs: Cornet looked direct and powerful in his first proper game for ages and Fernandes and Dibling again showed their quality. Best player on the pitch was Lallana by a mile though - so classy, just a shame he isnt a few years younger! Wonder if he might get a start vs Ipswich although doesn't have the legs to cover the ground Fernandes does? Really need Archer to come good...

No, its a crazily big squad especially as a good few first teamers are considered youth players so aren't included. I don't think it makes things easier because so many have very little chance of featuring (and are costing a lot in wages). Aside from the obvious like Onuachu and Kamaldeen I am suprised we didnt loan out players like Bree, Manning, Larios, Wood or Edwards. Hard to see any of those getting PL minutes unless there is a monster injury crisis.

Would definitely give Archer another start down the middle. He was good vs Cardiff and bright until the pen miss on Saturday. We need a forward to play themselves into a bit of form.

We had the highest non penalty XG in the league last season - we created plenty and despite missing a lot of relatively easy chances still scored the 3rd highest amount of goals so factually chance creation was not an issue across the season. Also top for number of progressive carries and number of progressive passes across the whole season - both by some distance. By no means perfect or we would have won the league but would suggest the issues we had were not what you describe! Source: FBREF

They have recruited for a specific style of football so to suddenly rip that up after 4 or 5 games and think someone like Moyes would suddenly make it all work is ridiculous. We have one of the worst 3 teams/squads in the league, without question because of the PL riches and amount of very established teams we are competing with. Any manager will be working with that and find it tough. If we were to beat Ipswich we would likely move out of the bottom three in any case and thats our only aim for the season.

Feels almost too obvious to bother saying but not sure there is any value at all in comparing to a season 12 years ago. So much is contextually different whilst crucially the level of the PL outside the top clubs is very different and significantly stronger. Hence there only being a couple of clubs that its genuinely realistic for us to finish above outside of the ones we came up with.

Whilst I agree with the OP on many of the points there are a couple of additional ones I would raise. 1. Probably because we have been a PL side for so much of its existence it feels like there is an enhanced level of expectation vs the reality of a team that finished 4th in the Championship. As an example yesterday we faced a team we didn't beat at home in the last 20 years where at times we had a very good team yet it felt like people viewed it as a good chance to get something. We were favourites to go straight down because we have one of the worst 3 squads in the PL. Important not to lose the context that we are trying to upset the odds. 2. The overall strength of the PL is massively underestimated. Relegation is already 3 from 5 at a push ( us, Ipswich, Leicester, Everton and possibly Wolves). The likes of Forest, Brentford, Fulham etc have quality attackers and solid PL experienced defenders. Probably one or two of our players would get in some of these sides. In many ways we chose a bad year to finally drop because of the strength of teams we went down and then back up with - compared to the PL last year for example. Overall no need to give up and some good signs but so much is stacked against us that its really difficult and some realism is needed in amongst some of the understandable criticism. This definitely isn't a scenario where something black and white like changing a manager or swapping one player or formation is suddenly going to propel us up the table.

No. He said he got to the PL from L2 in 5 years by sticking to his principles so not about to change away from it now he is there.

Ridiculous amount of players not even making the squad, especially in defensive positions: Lumley, Bree, Edwards, Wood, Larios, Manning, Smallbone, Sam Amo, Kamaldeen, Onuachu

Oakley aside, these were more Carlingsmen.

PL club in 'watching another PL match' shocker!

Definitely today as THB, Wood and Bednarek there. Think its Larios you are referring to. Could see ABK and Cornet but not Kamaldeen or TP unless I missed them.