Fabrice29

We got promoted with the last mid to bottom end Championship manager btw and next season again that would be success. Its almost as if where you finish with one team isn't necessarily an indicator of how you'll do with another and that success in the PL is about a bit more than who you have as a manager. If people want me to stop having a pop at fans, maybe the fans shouldn't say silly things.

I don't think detachment is on the fans. That's down to the actions the club has taken. I do think it manifesting itself in the form of the treatment of Smallbone and ABK is piss poor though and that is on the fans.

Agree with you here fwiw. Hopefully this new technical director is here for the long term so they can stick to one plan. Would probably mention that quite a lot of fans singing "your football is shit" at the main instigator of the previous style suggests SR were just trying to appease the fans with this change but don't want to sound weird.

Yeah, I think turning on a boyhood Saints fan who turned up for us last season whilst cheering a guy who hasn't wanted to be here since we finished bottom last time is worth calling out. Weird, I know.

I've edited the post with some extra views but what would you like me to say about the game? Another post saying we weren't very good would satisfy you would it?

Good reception for ABK when he came on today from the same people the sarcastically cheered Smallbone last week. Incredible stuff. Sums up nicely our major issue for me. We are completely removed from the success we had last year as a fan base, a club and a squad both on and off the pitch. Everything that was fun and good last season has gone. We had 2 players start today who started the play off final. Appreciate there's some that weren't good enough and that will naturally happen but there's no recognisable trait from last year to this. Completely devoid of any identity and any link to the team that was actually delivering. But hey, ABK's back so happy days, cant wait to cheer the boyhood Saints fan off the pitch again.

Yes, mainly to annoy the people that genuinely believe there is such a thing.

Yes, some players will perform better under different managers. That's the case for the previous manager, this manager and any future managers we have. My point was that it's only natural. Lesley I think will get a chance at Chelsea one day but I'm not convinced that any other player has improved under Juric enough to be getting into other PL teams which you seemed to suggest. The only players even debatably getting into other PL teams will be the ones we knew about under Martin too.

Cue first page of this thread being full of posts shouting "Just wish we'd play our best 11 in our best formation ffs!"

As opposed to the players that don't feel aligned and loyal to him you mean? For example...

Well we did have success didn’t we? Albeit at a different level but it was playing a very specific way which some fans might not have taken to but the players certainly did and some of them cited that way for the reason for joining this season. We have seemingly done a u turn on that way of playing now, which is well within the clubs rights but even in the bad times this season the players seemingly still bought into that way of playing and it’s well within their human nature for some of them to still feel aligned with the previous way. Obviously there is a desire for players to be adjustable (or as some people put it ‘man up pussy’) and obviously there will be some players that prefer this way but it’s a mess at the top that has created this, not the players. It’s no surprise Juric recently talked about wanting players in who suit his style. If he or the next manager is given that a then we get a new way of doing things, the same issue will arise.

Can I also just add that in addition to what I've said above, I'm not surprised by it because as I explained in the January transfer window thread, apathy will very quickly spread throughout the club if the club decide to not try and improve on the pitch by signing someone who might score us some goals. Some people on here actively advocated that approach too. It's not surprising but it is disappointing and it's just going to be taken out on the players and in this instance a genuine Saints fan who is probably the one who cares the most.

By toxic I don't mean protesting and all that jazz. I mean just a weird, unconnected, waiting to be angry about anything they possibly can vibe about it (and as you say not doing anything about it). Even on the outside there's people whipping up far right protests around the ground, it's weird, unconnected to anything about the club and just wanting to be angry at something. On the inside it's the same, nobody actually being arsed enough to protest as you say, just an odd in-between vibe but no sense of togetherness with whats happening on the pitch. Obviously thats largely down to the results and performances but the fans have been so quick to detach themselves from it and it manifests itself ironic cheering. We had a good spell yesterday of 10 minutes or whatever it was and it felt like there was a combined purpose and environment whipping itself up and then the very moment the ball hits the net there was mass walkouts. Completely detaching itself from whats happening again. This is a fine example really, just completely detached from the reality of what happened because the default setting is to be pissed off. Quite sad really that people like this guy couldn't enjoy last season because he convinced himself and continues to convince himself that everything that happened last year was terrible.

The other way round it is to take it out on the manager not the player which people seemed capable of doing to the previous managers. Or, even better, the real way around it is to accept that amongst a bunch of not very good players sometimes the specific player you don’t like might end up starting and just get over it.

I don’t think anyone’s expecting that at all but completely ripping up everything that was successful last season rather than trying to work a way though it has ended up just as catastrophic really. So now people who enjoyed those certain aspects of last season and in some examples directly used them as reasons to join up again are probably left feeling a bit lost. Yes you want better and I don’t advocate anyone throwing strops that have meant they aren’t included but also there’s not many links between last seasons wave and this season left.

If you want an example of how toxic this fanbase can be then the treatment of Smallbone is it. Boyhood Southampton fan and probably our most important player in the play offs last season and now he’s being sarcastically cheered off the pitch. Whether you think he’s good enough or not at this level is one thing but absolutely heartless and unforgiving treatment of someone and a real symbol of how detached from last season we’ve become so quickly. Could be wrong but I don’t think Ipswich are treating some of their players who helped get them up and now out of their depth like that. Such a weird mentality amongst people this season, complete detachment.

I’m not advocating anyone throwing a strop to the possible extent they have but fostering an environment like last season, playing a particular way and having success only to rip it up and change it completely the moment it starts to go wrong at a higher level was always going to piss some people off.

I think people need to remember that just one page back is the receipts of how we felt when he left. Although it’s much more fun and easier to just talk with the benefit of hindsight.

100% this and also there’s some massive assumptions being made about what the issue is, what it means and how it’s manifested itself. All based on a line or two from one side of the story.

We've already won 1 game with these tactics to be fair so that seems a better bet than your suggestion which you've said yourself wont win more than one. Basics.

Not much more than the evidence you have that Downes his crying off etc. Manager excluded him randomly from a squad or two and gave some vague "he knows why" answers in the media and he deleted all of his instagram references to Saints followed by media speculation he was back off to Chelsea in January. Manager was sacked, he's back in the team, Downes is out and now he's the one with the media speculation, random droppings and manager chat.

I don't care for this manager or his game plan (I'm not a massive fan of reactive football really and much preferred watching us under Martin, although I'm aware people cant fathom that). But I'm not jumping on some managerial or tactic hating train because it doesn't matter what system we play, what formation etc, the players you ask to implement it need to be good enough phsyically, technically and mentally and just like under Martin, I don't think the ones we have are. What I want next season is a completely fresh set of attackers (apart from Dibling and Fernandes in an ideal world obviously) and then I can start judging managers maybe. We currently have an attack that weren't trusted to get us up last season, thats a bigger concern rather than the manager.

I think they liked him because he helped deliver their most successful season in their careers in terms of league position for quite a few of them I suspect. It's not exactly a story that some players like one manager and some like other managers though. It mainly comes down to whether the manager is picking you or not. Not long ago Ugochukwu threw a hissy fit online because he wasn't picked and was being criticised on here , now he's in and Downes is out it's been switched up. Interesting that Downes and Armstrong are pathetic despite being our best players last season and they are seeing a loan player and two attackers who have about 5 goals between them get praised. Loyalty is only one way.

We've had 5 managers over our last 2 seasons in the PL. Each one had to their own ideas, systems, formations. Do you really think our issue is we haven't yet stumbled on a magic tactic? Oh and btw there is a core group of players who have played under each one, some of which have been trying to leave over that time, but nobody else wants and there's a few of them still in todays starting line up ffs but yeah, 5 at the back is easier to shout about.

We've played with a striker this season, in fact our top scoring and assist making striker this season just scored for WBA today because he (rightly) was deemed not good enough but wasn't replaced. It's almost as if the quality of the players matters and not the position we fill on the pitch.