All Activity

I'm not a lawyer but I am seeing bully boy tactics and a one sided argument being presented in the media which needs to be tamed.

Incorrect. This is page 86

Lawyers will always try to drum up business - there isn’t much money in defending/prosecuting trivial penalties. I’d take issue with the comment that it is clear we obtained a sporting advantage (I tried to copy the precise words, but that was the thrust of it). This is not clear at all - perhaps it is clear that we were trying to obtain a sporting advantage, but that is a different thing. I agree it would be a completely different scenario if we had clearly gained a sporting advantage - but it is very far from clear that that is the case. If anything, it’s reasonably “clear” that we didn’t.

I made the fatal mistake of going out last night and it's a nightmare trying to catch up as the thread is growing quicker than I can read...! Currently on page 79.... 🙂

The place to make that statement is to the independent tribunal. There will be time for public statements after they've decided.

I guess the question I have about the bit in bold is, are the play-offs really part of the league. Or legally speaking are they are completely different entity as a knock out competition? I assume the former? I which case, I agree with the rest of it... If the latter, then I guess there's a higher risk of getting kicked out. Still highly unlikely and massively disproportionate to the "crime" (imo) but if it happens there would, and should, be no benefit to Boro in terms of being reinstated. The only logical outcome of that is for Hull be promoted by default. Obviously the EFL will be keen to avoid that though because of money from the final.

This is the thing. While I totally agree we don't do "This is the case for the defence m'lud" in public statements, if I were in Dragan's shoes, I would be asking our lawyers whether we should make a public announcement that as a club we are deeply concerned at the way Middlesboro is trying to manipulate the media and influence the judgement of an independent panel. All my colleagues not connected to Southampton can't believe a young lad with an iPhone has caused such media hype. OK, many are Chelsea and Arsenal season ticket holders so probably don't want their own activities too closely monitored, but I am convinced common sense will prevail and we'll be given a fine.

Eyewitness testimonial isn't reliable minutes after an event. Let alone recalling things from weeks or months earlier and remembering faces. As this video shows... Would you recognise someone you saw 2 months ago who was stood outside your workplace?

The electorate also historically don’t take too kindly to new leaders being parachuted in without being voted for at a general. Blair and Brown’s deal looked grubby. Truss was a complete and utter head case but nobody apart from a few Tory nutters wanted anything to do with her, Sunak did a poor job and was tainted by all that went before him. I think the visuals of getting Burnham in aren’t good at all.

As hull said, the Efl have to take their share of responsibility here for their poorly drafted rules that aren't specific enough about sanctions. Not that that absolves us of wrongdoing but I think if we get off this that will be the primary reason why because it's wooly and that invites legal action from us whereas Middlesbrough cannot appeal.

The crying reaction will be joy to behold when they realise it’s not going happen

You also stated as fact that managers and tactics aren’t important to the results of professional football teams, to be fair

Witness statements-They may not have realised the significance of any sighting at the time. There is no obligation but if we are adamant that nothing took place and this other analyst is adamant that Mr salt was spying prior to a particular game then you'd think we would be keen to prove our innocence so that the balance of probabilities goes in our favour. All speculation obviously.

Great post. Also, as a principle, pretty much all sporting punishments are thrown forwards, not retrospectively. In genral it's the future that gets changed not the past. The AFCON final thing is an exception. And I suppose ineligible players results in forfeit of a past match. But not sure this situation is analogous to either of those. As long as we are successful in making it an isolated case that we can argue had a negligible impact vs other transgressions (financial irregularities impacting the entire league over an entire season). We need to make feel like a single game infringement worthy of a fine. Hopefully we can do that

#KarenFCForumWatch A lot of people are certain about a lot of things they couldn't possibly know for sure. It turns out that 2 + 2 = "Gibbo" in a shock reverberating with mathematicians the world over. As more KarenFC fans gather online the rage is reaching a fever pitch to the extent that Samaritans have cancelled all annual leave for the next few weeks. A nation watches on. Concerned.

Mitigating evidence is the way here.

While I don’t agree with it, this is not great reading, and is written by sensible people for once: https://www.stewartslaw.com/news/spy-games-what-are-the-possible-repercussions-of-the-southampton-v-middlesbrough-play-off-spying-allegations/

Witness statements - They didn't report them at the time. ID lineups aren't overly reliable within hours of an incident, let alone weeks or months later! Phone records/bank statements- How would other clubs have those regarding Saints staff? If you mean the EFL, this isn't a police investigation, there is no obligation for those to be produced.

We know it goes on until Tuesday at the latest either way.

Boro fans still convinced we're getting kicked out...

Can we have a meteor hit the stadium wiping them all out? If not I may er on the side of Pompey but it will be close. Right now I actually hate karenborough more.

They’ll have no proof whatsoever, are probably on holiday now, and know that in the grand scheme of things it wouldn’t affect their league position. The question is would they be kicking off had they been in this one off crucial game and the team instead of Middlesbrough we were spying on and then beat. I imagine the answer would be yes. For all this slagging off of Middlesbrough, this forum would be in meltdown had Portsmouth spied on us and then knocked us out of the playoffs, so I find this Middlesbrough pony a bit disingenuous from some of our supporters. People keep posting that we didn’t gain an advantage. True, but only because we got caught. I’m not a lawyer but “yes we tried to gain an advantage, but we’re so useless at it, we didn’t”, doesn’t strike me as carrying much weight as a defence. Neither is “it was legal an hour ago”, or “they should have made it harder for us to watch”. I’m just glad the likes of Soggy & MLG aren’t on our legal team. If it was a simple case of a lone wolf, it would be done by now. If it was a half arsed Billy Smart circus cock up, it would be done by now. I’ve no doubt if they find on the balance of probabilities it was an organised attempt to gain an unfair advantage, we will be chucked out. Maybe we could appeal that on the basis, this is part of the league season, and we wouldn’t be chucked out the league for it, but the longer it goes on, the more we’re in jeopardy imo.

Nope.

0-0 draw with 10 red cards.

When Boro line up against Pompey in the Championship next season, who do you want to win? It's a tricky one....